What is impeadence of ionized air?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the impedance of ionized air, particularly in the context of electrical arcs and spark gaps. Participants explore various factors influencing impedance, including ionization levels, temperature, air pressure, and humidity, as well as the non-linear characteristics of arcs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that during a full arc, the impedance of ionized air is very low, comparable to that of a wire.
  • One participant references a research article claiming the impedance is 1 gigaohm after ionization, but questions the validity of this figure.
  • It is mentioned that the impedance of air decreases with increasing temperature, complicating the understanding of the spark process.
  • Participants discuss the non-linear V-I relationship of arcs, suggesting that impedance may not be a suitable descriptor for such phenomena.
  • Factors such as air pressure and humidity are highlighted as significant variables that can dramatically affect the resistance of air.
  • There is mention of spark gap devices that can handle high currents and voltages, though details on their design are not provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the impedance of ionized air, with no consensus reached on specific values or the appropriateness of using impedance as a descriptor for arcs. Multiple competing perspectives on the factors influencing impedance are present.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the discussion is influenced by conditions such as air pressure and humidity, and that assumptions like standard temperature and pressure (STP) may apply to some claims.

Agnostic
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what is impeadence of ionized air?
 
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I've done some google and wiki searching, but I didn't find a good link. Basically, when you have a full-on arc, the impedance is very low (like a wire). The terms to search on are ionization, glow, arc, spark, etc. Spark gap protection devices for data line networks are basically short circuits when they arc over.
 
berkeman said:
I've done some google and wiki searching, but I didn't find a good link. Basically, when you have a full-on arc, the impedance is very low (like a wire). The terms to search on are ionization, glow, arc, spark, etc. Spark gap protection devices for data line networks are basically short circuits when they arc over.


I found one research article in journal of chemistry that says it is 1gigaohm AFTER ionization...which is luidicris(sp?)...
 
Agnostic said:
I found one research article in journal of chemistry that says it is 1gigaohm AFTER ionization..

Depends also on how much ionisation.

In fact, an arc is badly described by an impedance, because the V-I relationship is highly non-linear (while impedance would be the linear coefficient). As berkeman said, for a strong arc, the differential impedance can be near zero (almost no change in V for a change in I).
 
Also, unlike most materials, impedance of air decreases as temperature increases. So a spark that we see as an instantaneous eventis actually a fairly complex process. A little bit of current jumps a gap once the air is sufficiently ionized, and this currwent encounters strong resistance. The passage of current through resistance creates heat (which further ionizes the air, I believe), and causes more current to flow.
 
A couple more things that needs to be taken into account are air pressure and humidity. These things can change the resistance of air quite dramatically
 
Emicro said:
A couple more things that needs to be taken into account are air pressure and humidity. These things can change the resistance of air quite dramatically


assuming STP
 
With proper design, spark gaps can have very low impedances, though I'm afraid I don't know the details of what's required to accomplish this. Devices apparently exist that can switch mega-amperes (with kilovolts power supplies).

Some web references:

http://jamsci.org/2003-10-12/0007/SparkGapTubeArticle.html

(has a bibliography to some literature on the topic, and a quick overview of some of the physics involved, which is considerable).

http://www.amazing1.com/sparkgap.htm

sells a railgun spark gap switch, but wants a lot of money for the plans (don't know if they are on the up-and-up).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_gap#Power-switching_devices

wikipedia article about spark gaps.
 
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