What is Mass, Really? Unraveling the Mystery

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of mass, exploring its definitions, implications in physics, and its relationship with gravity and energy. Participants delve into historical perspectives from Newton and Einstein, as well as contemporary interpretations involving particle physics and fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that mass is fundamentally linked to gravity, stating that without mass, gravity cannot exist.
  • Another participant proposes that mass can be defined as a quantity of matter per unit volume, inviting thoughts on this definition.
  • A participant discusses the definition of density as mass per unit volume and raises a geometric consideration regarding the relationship between spheres and cubes in higher dimensions.
  • There is a claim that only charged particles possess mass, prompting a response about neutral particles like neutrons and neutrinos, which have mass despite lacking charge.
  • One participant elaborates on the complexities of mass, suggesting that rest mass is equivalent to potential energy, while kinetic energy relates to the motion of mass.
  • Discussion includes the Higgs field as a proposed field associated with mass, questioning how a scalar field can impart force to other forces.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of a thermodynamic equilibrium between potential and kinetic mass in stars, linking this to broader implications for technologies like thermonuclear fusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on the definition and nature of mass, with no clear consensus reached. Some agree on certain aspects of mass's relationship with gravity and energy, while others challenge or refine these ideas, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in definitions and assumptions regarding mass, energy, and the nature of physical fields. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and unresolved questions about the fundamental nature of mass.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying physics, particularly in areas related to classical mechanics, relativity, and particle physics, as well as individuals curious about the foundational concepts of mass and energy.

  • #31
Antonio,

Because it is not an EM wave, I was wondering if it travels at the speed of light?

If not, how does the high energy come into being? (or is this the mystery that you said exists)

Is there a mass value associated with it?


LPF
 
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  • #32
8LPF16,

EM waves travel at the speed of light because EM waves are light itself. So by saying that they travel at light speed doesn't say anything about the nature of light. the physical value of light speed is the inverse of the square root of the product of the permeability of vacuum and the permitivity of vacuum. And in SI system of unit this is 300,000 km/s. permeability is a property of the magnetic field and permitivity is a property of the electric field.

For light, permitivity and permeability are in a symmetrical configuration as can seen in Maxwell's equations.

For matter, these properties can still be found inside each particle but they are not symmetrical. And that is why matter cannot travel at the speed of light in comparison to light.

But if we say that someone is at the other end of the universe looking at us. He or she will say that we are traveling near the speed of light and we can say the same about this observer at the other end of the universe that he or she is traveling near the speed of light. At this moment while I am typing these words in this forum, you, me and the whole Earth itself is traveling in space at the speed of 18 miles per second in an orbit around the sun. In reality everything in the universe is moving at very high speed. But somehow energy is not directly related to speed. Protons have greater mass than electrons. The mass ratio is 1836 to 1, proton being the heavier one. But relative to the atom, the protons are all at rest, while the electrons are moving around the protons. Proton have 99% of the energy of the atom and it is not moving.

The equation in special relativity saying that mass increase according to speed is the inertial mass equivalent to energy. The modern accelerators know this fact, so the scientists in the lab prefer to accelerate the electrons instead of the protons because it will take them a lot more energy and money to accelerate the protons.
In other accelerators, they have no choice but to accelerate the protons and these are the more expensive machines. The superconducting supercollider would have been such expensive high energy machine.

Antonio
 
  • #33
Antonio,

I am asking " I was wondering if it travels at the speed of light?

If not, how does the high energy come into being? (or is this the mystery that you said exists)

Is there a mass value associated with it?

As pertaining to the cosmic ray. (not EM waves or protons)


LPF
 
  • #34
8LPF16,

The cosmic rays relative to us are not traveling at the speed of light. They are mostly high energy protons. The high energy is the kinetic energy due to high speed but not light speed. The mass of the proton is the highest for stable particles. The neutrons is heavier than the protons but they cannot exist in the free state. The free neutrons die and decay into protons, electrons, and neutrinos in about 10 minutes.

The mystery of the cosmic rays is their origin. Scientist don't know where they come from. Some say they are from the center of the galaxy (Milky Way). Some say from beyond out to other galaxies. But one thing for sure, they come from every possible direction.

Antonio
 
Last edited:
  • #35
Antonio,

Thanks - that was exactly what I was wondering.



LPF
 

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