What is Pauli's Exclusion Principle and How Does It Apply to Fermions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Pauli's Exclusion Principle and its application to fermions, exploring its implications in quantum mechanics, particularly in relation to atomic structure and the behavior of particles like electrons. Participants delve into the technical aspects of the principle, including its mathematical formulation and its significance in the context of quantum states.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the principle implies no two fermions can occupy the same atomic number, seeking further clarification on this concept.
  • Another participant explains that two identical fermions cannot be in the same quantum state, emphasizing the role of quantum numbers in labeling these states and its importance in the structure of the periodic table.
  • A third participant introduces the mathematical framework involving fermionic creation and annihilation operators, highlighting the use of anti-commutators and the implications for constructing states with multiple particles.
  • Some participants question whether fermions can occupy the same state if they are in different positions, suggesting a potential nuance in the application of the principle.
  • One participant clarifies that creation and annihilation operators act in momentum space, indicating that the quantum numbers involved do not correspond to specific positions in space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the exclusion principle regarding the spatial positioning of fermions, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on this point.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes complex mathematical formulations and assumptions about quantum states that may not be fully articulated, leaving some aspects open to interpretation.

Gravitonion
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I know the principle says that no two fermions canNot have the same atomic number, but could you explain that in detail?
 
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It means two identical fermions (say, any two electrons) cannot be in exactly the same state. So if you have a discrete way of labeling the states, say by atomic quantum numbers, then you can only have one electron in each of those states (or two if you are not counting the spin in the quantum numbers). One reason this is really important is that it gives us the periodic table-- atoms get a lot larger when you "break into a new valence shell" as you add electrons, and that's only because the new electrons can't go into the states that the previous electrons are already in.
 
Gravitonion said:
I know the principle says that no two fermions canNot have the same atomic number, but could you explain that in detail?
Are you familiar with the harmonic oscillator?

Fermionic creation and annihilation operators are constructed using anti-commutators (instead of commutators

[tex]\{b_s,b^\dagger_{s^\prime}\} = \delta_{s\,s^\prime}[/tex]

[tex]\{b_s,b_{s^\prime}\} = \{b^\dagger_s,b^\dagger_{s^\prime}\} = 0[/tex]

The last equation is important b/c for s=s' it can be rewritten as :

[tex](b^\dagger_s)^2 = 0[/tex]

s,s' represent the quantum numbers

You can construct a states where each s, s', s'', ... is occupied by either zero or one particle. But if you want to construct a state with two particles sitting in state s you get

[tex]|2s\rangle = (b^\dagger_s)^2|0\rangle = 0[/tex]

due to the anticommutator.
 
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They can be in the same state as long as they have different positions though right?
 
Runner 1 said:
They can be in the same state as long as they have different positions though right?
Sorry, I forgot to explain that creation and annihilation operators act in momentum space and that this means that s is a collection of momentum, spin, isospin, etc.}. Therefore they are not located anywhere in position space.
 

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