What is Space outside of the universe and infinity according to Physics?

[Drakkith]

Of course it's unknowable, what I'm arguing is that outside the universe there is not nothing, it's definitely something related with space, if science is heading towards this thinking, than I don't if this is still science.
Sure you can argue that space is created in the Big Bang, but is it really true?
What you have is expanding, how is it going to expand anything if you already don't have (empty) space where you can expand in the first place-you can't

Page 1 of this thread answers most of your questions and explains what a "manifold" is and how it applies to this situation. I suggest you read it.

As far as I'm concerned you can ban me forever, but if you say, that there is nothing outside the expanding universe, than it's the opposite of science.

If so, then so is claiming that there is something outside the universe, as you have done.

 

[No-where-man]

Page 1 of this thread answers most of your questions and explains what a "manifold" is and how it applies to this situation. I suggest you read it.

You mean posted by Marcus? I promise I'll read it, however the only problem I have with this interpretation is finite volume-it again means that universe is not infinite, and if it is expanding in something, something that expands it's already finite in its size and in its volume.
If something is truly infinite than it's truly infinite, it is infinitely small and infinitely large in size, volume, diameter; whatever, there are no any boundaries, limitations, end points or anything like-truly infinite means truly infinite.

Math does work with infinities and infinite values for quite a long time, but the fact remains, there are only abstract concepts and nothing more.

If so, then so is claiming that there is something outside the universe, as you have done.

No, it isn't, there is something, the question is what?
Sure it could be classified like the empty void or similar, but the fact remains, if the universe is truly expanding, than it can't expand in nothing, it cannot expand into something/anything that is not associated with space (or void-empty space), since it has size and volume-which are both finite.

 

[Drakkith]

You mean posted by Marcus? I promise I'll read it, however the only problem I have with this interpretation is finite volume-it again means that universe is not infinite, and if it is expanding in something, something that expands it's already finite in its size and in its volume.
But this is math, does this really work in the real world?
Math does work with infinities and infinite values for quite a long time, but the fact remains, there are only abstract concepts and nothing more.

From post #16 in this thread:

With manifolds we do not need "space outside of space", and space can have finite volume and finite circumference---or it can be infinite. Either one works, with manifolds.


And yes, this math does work just fine in the real world. I believe General Relativity is a testament to that, as is all other uses of manifolds.

No, it isn't there is something, the question is what?
sure it could be classified like the empty void or similar, but the fact remains, if the universe is truly expanding, than it can't expand anything that is not associated with space (or void-empty space), since it has size and volume-which are both finite.

I'm going to need you to work on your grammar. I can't really grasp what you're trying to say here without having to guess, which I'd prefer not to do.

 

[No-where-man]

From post #16 in this thread:

With manifolds we do not need "space outside of space", and space can have finite volume and finite circumference---or it can be infinite. Either one works, with manifolds.

And that's a key problem here-finite volume and finite circumference (a key word is "finite"), if it's finite than there's something outside.

And yes, this math does work just fine in the real world. I believe General Relativity is a testament to that, as is all other uses of manifolds.

Sure it does, it has been confirmed zillion times, what I'm saying is that there is no such thing as nothingness in a real world/universe/outside the universe.

I'm going to need you to work on your grammar. I can't really grasp what you're trying to say here without having to guess, which I'd prefer not to do.

Sorry, I meant to say that size and volume of the universe are both finite.
I meant to say that if the universe is truly expanding, the outside space allows it to do so (yes, space is expanding in the universe as the universe itself does expand, but that wouldn't be possible if there is not any outside space).

 

[Drakkith]

I'm sorry, but your claims are 100% unsupported. They are nothing more than personal opinion.

 

[DennisN]

And that's a key problem here-finite volume and finite circumference (a key word is "finite"), if it's finite than there's something outside.

This is a non sequitur - the conclusion you are drawing (there is something outside) does not follow from your premise (it's finite).

Sorry, I meant to say that size and volume of the universe are both finite.

This is currently scientifically unknown, and you have to accept that.

I meant to say that if the universe is truly expanding, the outside space allows it to do so [...]

There is no "outside space" . *

[...](yes, space is expanding in the universe as the universe itself does expand, but that wouldn't be possible if there is not any outside space).

There is no "outside" space. Space is all there is. *

(* in standard mainstream cosmology, at least)

(I will post some links to some articles which might help, please wait)

EDIT:

I'd suggest you have a look at

• Shape of the Universe
• Shape of the Universe - Global geometry
• Shape of the Universe - Flat universe (as an example)

I'd also suggest having a look at these shapes, which may help you reconsider how you think about geometry;

• Möbius strip
• Torus
• Klein bottle

 

[ZapperZ]

Closed, pending moderation.

Zz.