Writing: Input Wanted What is the concept of 'residual self image' in The Matrix?

[cybernetichero]

So you're saying it's not strictly an aether/or proposition.

 

[Cobul]

So you're saying it's not strictly an aether/or proposition.

What? No.

Dark people can walk through walls. I just read:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-018-0598-6

Is dark matter self-interacting?

Contrary to usual assumptions, new astronomical observations suggest that dark matter may be self-interacting. If true this would rule out most popular dark matter particle candidates, including supersymmetric neutralinos, axions and sterile neutrinos, as well as black holes.

 

[Cobul]

As @Algr points out, why walk through walls when one can skirt 'around' or 'over' them via an extra spatial dimension? With many examples from literature where authors use this technique, consider two of the best IMO written by mathematicians:

"Flatland: A World of Many Dimensions" by British schoolteacher Edwin Abbott Abbott, who takes us willy-nilly through multiple dimensions from point to line to square to sphere/cube. Intended as humorous satire of his Victorian culture, "Flatland" endures as a classic dimension-hopping original novel.

"Spaceland" by American university professor and SF author Rudy Rucker. Disillusioned software jock, Joe Cube, learns to navigate higher dimensions from Momo, a well endowed visitor from the fourth dimension. Momo augments Joe to be able to 'walk through' or step over any 3-D obstacle. Naturally, our tech-savvy heroes attempt to monetize this new knowledge by creating an internet startup and also a competitive cell phone company.

Spoiler: Plot twist in "Spaceland"

Joe Cube robs the Wells Fargo bank in Los Perros, California, by slithering 'over' the vault and reaching 'vin' to safe deposit boxes.

In the tradition of Abbott in "Flatland", Rudy Rucker satirizes life in Silicon Valley, California. Each character and place name becomes a joke. Fictional Los Perros, Spanish for 'the dogs', represents the actual city of Los Gatos, 'the cats', in Northern California where Rucker lived while teaching at San Jose State University. I once rented a safe deposit box from Wells Fargo as part of the bank's investment package. I imagine Rucker used the same convenient bank.

Here is a plus for using extra dimension to pass through wall like described above. But, is this talking about a large fifth dimension of infinite extend or just micron size?

https://scitechdaily.com/searching-..._j51tfapMWU-7yJYWEmCLEyoGgSH0yaDNYJm-HmfLDjKU

Searching for Dark Matter Through the Fifth Dimension – New Theoretical Physics Discovery to Help Unravel the Mysteries of Dark Matter

I saw this at:

 

[Cobul]

I started this thread because they didn't even answer my original basic questions at https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/electromagnetism-and-the-pauli-exclusion-principle.998810/

I asked there:

"Electromagnetism in the atoms is why we can't pass through a bank vault. But supposed electromagnetism were canceled for an object, what would happen to the residual or remaining Pauli Exclusion principle? Would it still cause resistance to passing through the vault?

On a second scenario, what would happen if the Pauli exclusion principle were canceled but electromagnetism remains, how would the atoms behave?"

They won't answer because they said it was science fiction. So kindly answer them in this thread as I still don't know what to write in an initial basic way.

I tried to seek answers and I saw this video (at 1:30 time mark).



"Pauli exclusion principle, no two electrons can be in the same state or configuration. On a basic level, this is why you can't walk through wall. So you can't pass through an object. But did you know you can't actually touch them either."

So let say electromagnetism was canceled and you "magically" command the wave function to just hold the electrons in place (again for sake of discussions). Would the residual Paul Exclusion Principle prevent you from passing solid objects each other? Imagine as the atoms and electrons of the two objects tried to mix. The electrons want to join in one space but Pauli EP prevent that. Is that right? It may be obvious to you but it is not to me so kindly let me know what is the case. Thanks.

 

[Klystron]

Isaac Asimov once complained that fantasy and science fiction genres preclude writing honest 'who dunnits?, with logical clues leading to solving a crime, since the author can introduce any odd fiction to 'prove who done it'. Then he wrote SF murder mystery "I, Robot" somewhat mitigating his stance.

Asimov's complaint applies even more to profoundly altering basic physics then expecting logical responses from scientists and engineers. Instead of asking what if electromagnetism was cancelled, consider altering a measured quantity such as α, the fine structure constant, by a reasonable amount then figuring out the ramifications in the physical world. Though still speculation, at least the question remains grounded in science.

 

[Cobul]

Several days ago I found partial answer which made me think of the infinity stones. I'll explain. First the reddit quoted as describing about passing through walls:

"The Pauli principle doesn't really predict a hard point at which electron-orbitals overlap and therefore can't come any closer. It's just that with shorter and shorter distance between two atoms the orbitals deform in energetically less and less favorable shapes in order to satisfy the exclusion principle. This results in a force that pushes the two atoms away from each other."

So I need sci-fi way to cancel the Pauli principle. Does it exist? Yes, the infinity stones.

First all our Big Bang theories are so silly. Did you notice that? Like quantum fluctuations from nothing that gave rise to such work of art as Megan Fox. Or such silliness like the Universe evolving laws of nature, it's like saying the Empire State Building rised up because of evolving concretes and irons that tried different configurations. The infinity stones origins were more likely. It explained how in in the beginning, these qualities or aspects of existence were fundamental. Infinity Stones each control an essential aspect of existence: Space, Reality, Power, Soul, Mind, and Time. And these produced the Big Bang that gave rise to all the qualities in the Universe, makes better sense, isn't it? In fact days ago. I began to watched all the dozens movies related to them concluding in Avengers: Endgame.

The infinity stones explained the world better too (at least in the world of the internet myth and lore). We can perhaps say the Greys have accessed to the Reality stone (so they can phase through walls), the Reptoids have the Space Stone, they can use interdimensional portal.

Do you know all stones have taken part in whole movies except the Soul stone. The following gives ideas how to make future movies that focused on the Soul stone. I read that:

"Angelina is a life long abductee. Her mother and grandmother also reports encounters, missing time, and probable abductions. Angelina reports being abducted by several different alien types, including traditional Greys with black oval eyes, short tan types, reptilians, human military personnel and humans dressed in lab coats working in full cooperation with the aliens. Dick doesn't believe in Angelina's encounters and is emotionally unsupported, glib, controlling and sometimes abusive. Often during Angelina's abductions Dick is sound asleep and cannot be wakened, as if drugged.

Angelina has sexual encounters with a 7-foot tall lizard man. During these episodes, she is immobilied and is given a screen memory of making love to her favorite movie star. At times Angelna has been able to break through the implanted screen memory to observe a reptilian with scales, red or yellow snake slit eyes, long claw-like fingers and a tail. The reptilian repeatedly rapes her and exhbits jealouse and dominating behaviors towards Angelina's husband. For example, one night in bed, Angelina, not yet asleep, was lying with Dick's arm around her. The reptilian enters the bedroom through some sort of interdimensional portal and lies down on the bed..."

So perhaps we can say the Soul stone got somehow integrated into part of humanity, that is, we embraced it's qualities, and so the purpose why these beings sought us is to extract the Soul stone away from us. Like Thanos seeking the universe to find all infinity stones to gain more power.

I once met a male Reptoid abductee and asked him to write science fiction for me. He got mad saying he has no time for science fiction or fiction. This is interview with him where it gave a summary of what comprise the internet myth and lore. http://www.whale.to/b/bartley8.html (think of it as new sci-fi source for novels or movies).

I specially liked these passages "Debunking scientists have played a key role in holding back the technical and indeed the spiritual development of the Human Race. As far as I’m concerned, these debunkers are “War Criminals” no different from the establishment shills in the corporate media and academic community who promote perpetual war abroad and crass stupidity and a police state at home.".

I want to include Crimes against Humanity against many physicists and scientists.

Also I'm puzzled, we have so many science fiction. Why don't we have some with Reptoids in them to satisfy the hundreds of thousands interested. If you will study the net. The followers of these internet myth and lore are as plentiful as the followers of the Infinity Stones. Can anyone write a movie script out of the above?

Creative Team. Give me ideas how to write stories like the above but without mentioning the infinity stones. Just the ideas that the Big Bang has inherent fundamental aspects like Space, Reality, Power, Soul, Mind, and Time, and the constants of nature were chosen to emcompassed or embraced the qualities.

Also in my story I don't want to mention about the Greys or Reptoids but follow the simpleton world of physicists where none of them exist. This is because I want to attract the readers of these group or mainstream scientific group. So please give me ideas. I lack creativity in thinking stories, so help me some core ideas. Appreciated you help so much creative team!

 

[Cobul]

I was debating with someone about Neo. I reasoned he should be able to walk through walls. Remember he could fly and stop bullets.

So if you are able to control the Matrix or simulated universe, does it mean you still have to follow the rules or the programming? When Neo flies, does he have to turn into negative mass to have opposite curvature in General Relativity for him to fly? Or does he simply reprogram the Lorentzian Manifold or change the rule? In stopping the bullets, he could simply divert the inertia to the surrounding or does he simply cancel the inertia (make it null or breaking the conservation of energy and momentum?)

Who is a programmer here who can offer some clues?

 

[hmmm27]

Who's to say that the Matrix wasn't itself contained in another matrix ?

 

[cybernetichero]

In games etc, different rooms are discrete environments with their own effects and NPCs so in the matrix it would require accessing that file and running it. The door is the exe command. If he tried it he could get stuck in the scenery and I hate when that happens.

 

[Cobul]

Who's to say that the Matrix wasn't itself contained in another matrix ?

But it is invariant. Because the best programming subroutines are General Relativity and Quantum Theory. And Matrix Software need these basic core.

I read the paper "Simulating Space and Time" by Whitworth

"Background

A hundred years of research have validated quantum and relativity theories in sub-atomic and cosmic domains, yet they conflict at the core. The quandary is that:

1.Quantum theory assumes an objective space background, which relativity specifically denies. For quantum theory to satisfy relativity it must be background independent, i.e. not assume, as it currently does, that quantum states arise in a fixed space and evolve in a fixed time [3].

2.Relativity assumes objects exist locally, which quantum theory specifically denies. For relativity to satisfy quantum theory it must be foreground independent, i.e. not assume, as it currently does, that localized objects move relatively through space-time.

These two great theories contradict because each debunks an objective reality assumption the other still clings to. Quantum theory challenges the objective reality of foreground objects, but still assumes a fixed background. Relativity theory challenges space and time as objective backgrounds, but still assumes fixed foreground objects. Both theories rebelled against the idea of objective reality in different ways, so each exposes the other's conceptual baggage but ignores its own.

To reconcile, both theories must abandon entirely all objective reality assumptions, i.e. reject objective space, objective time, objective existence, objective movement and any similar ideas. The prime axiom here is that nothing in the physical world exists of or by itself, so while it seems substantial and self-sustaining, both its foreground and background arise from processing. One can't "half-adopt" this theory, so it has no fixed space or time that quantum states exist in, nor any fixed entities that move relatively. The only constant is information processing, with space, time, matter and energy just outputs. In this model, not only is matter-energy calculated by "space" as Zuse suggests [4], but space itself is also calculated.

 

[cybernetichero]

Who's to say that the Matrix wasn't itself contained in another matrix ?

The original matrix would need phenomenal (and I mean breaking the laws of physics) hardware to real-time generate the entire world for billions of users simultaneously. The output required would more than swallow any supposed power to be gained from human batteries. Just the waste heat of all those bits being generated...

 

[cybernetichero]

If you could vary the atomic bond in the wall materials so they were more flexible could you create a split and squeeze through like an actor going through stage curtains?

 

[Cobul]

If you could vary the atomic bond in the wall materials so they were more flexible could you create a split and squeeze through like an actor going through stage curtains?

I think the most logical is to switch quantum unitarity. Is it not in many worlds quantum interpretation, two branches can share the same space? So if you can jump to another branch that is phase shifted to the wall, then perhaps you can pass through it and on the other side, jump back to original branches.

But can many worlds really occupy same space? With wave function shifted out of phase (or unitarity)?

Where is the attorney (atyy)? He is good in quantum.

 

[Cobul]

The original matrix would need phenomenal (and I mean breaking the laws of physics) hardware to real-time generate the entire world for billions of users simultaneously. The output required would more than swallow any supposed power to be gained from human batteries. Just the waste heat of all those bits being generated...

You may have a point. But why do some physicists like Tegmark suggested in his book The Mathematical Universe we may be living in a simulation? In his view though. All the other galaxies, black holes and cosmos were just for display for humans and not actually there. But to simulate this Earth now would still take incredible computation powers. Although the Earth cores and mantle and anything beneath our feet don't have to be actually there. So are the moon and mars. Nothing beneath the surfaces. Has anyone calculated what kind of computational power is required?

If you could seen with your own eyes a solid object that can move though walls. It gives support to the Matrix better?

And oh, I watched Glitch in the Matrix today and halfway I found out about the Animatrix Renaissance part I and II that showed the origin of the machines and the fall of humanity, and I got to watch Animatrix. I can't believe I missed this flick made in 2003. No one else missed it?

 

[cybernetichero]

If you could seen with your own eyes a solid object that can move though walls. It gives support to the Matrix better?

I was thinking about the same thing in relation to the TARDIS: Once you've seen the inside your disbelief is neutralised. Your anecdote would not be proof that a big box can be inside a small one though.

On the other hand there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies
Conan (Sherlock Holmes) Doyle was taken in by a couple of kids because he wanted to believe and didn't use Occam's razor.

Back in the days before the internet you got conspiracy theories at the Library from books by the likes of Eric Von Daniken and Charles Forte. I'm mortified by the stuff I used to believe.

 

[Cobul]

I was thinking about the same thing in relation to the TARDIS: Once you've seen the inside your disbelief is neutralised. Your anecdote would not be proof that a big box can be inside a small one though.

On the other hand there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies
Conan (Sherlock Holmes) Doyle was taken in by a couple of kids because he wanted to believe and didn't use Occam's razor.

Back in the days before the internet you got conspiracy theories at the Library from books by the likes of Eric Von Daniken and Charles Forte. I'm mortified by the stuff I used to believe.

First. I am not James Bartley. I meant "interview of of him with someone", not "interview with him" so those Blade-like vampire (or Reptoid) hunters. Don't seek me out. I know ignorance is bliss.

At this point. I just want to know if many worlds mean two objects can share same space, and to what extend. Do you have to track each individual branches of the atoms in the walls as you switch branches and walk through them?

I'm also still trying to understand Billtre Phase Shifting mechanism.

Third. What kind of computational power wherein we could really be inside a real matrix with quantum computers the size of the moon processing the power of our interactive dreamworld?

I'll be disappointed if Matrix IV coming in December 2021 won't have Neo walking through walls.

 

[Cobul]

Isaac Asimov once complained that fantasy and science fiction genres preclude writing honest 'who dunnits?, with logical clues leading to solving a crime, since the author can introduce any odd fiction to 'prove who done it'. Then he wrote SF murder mystery "I, Robot" somewhat mitigating his stance.

Asimov's complaint applies even more to profoundly altering basic physics then expecting logical responses from scientists and engineers. Instead of asking what if electromagnetism was cancelled, consider altering a measured quantity such as α, the fine structure constant, by a reasonable amount then figuring out the ramifications in the physical world. Though still speculation, at least the question remains grounded in science.

I tried all permutations of the fine structure constants, I couldn't get a stable matter that can also pass through walls. If it was even adjusted one in trillion, matter and vacuum got unstable and break down.

Can someone give some combination of values of fine structure constants and other constants of nature that can maintain stable matter and can pass through walls?
If this is impossible. Then the Matrix is the few possibilities left (at least in my story).

I was amazed when I re watched the Matrix Reloaded shown in 2003. I almost competely forgotten or wasn't aware of the Exile Program. In our Universe. Treat the source of the Matrix implementor as not consisting of 4D spacetime not our matter. And everything will fit in place. I read at Stack Exchange:

"Agents are responsible for protecting the integrity of the Matrix from both external and internal threats. Zion operatives like Neo and Trinity are external threats because they hack into the Matrix and their actions can reveal the truth that the Matrix is not the real world. However, there are also internal threats which can reveal the truth about the Matrix: in particular, Exile programs.

The Oracle: Look, see those birds? At some point a program was written to govern them. A program was written to watch over the trees, and the wind, the sunrise, and sunset. There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do, are invisible. You’d never even know they were here. But the other ones, well, we hear about them all the time.

Neo: I’ve never heard of them.

The Oracle: Of course you have. Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens is the system assimilating some program that’s doing something they’re not supposed to be doing.

Neo: Programs hacking programs. Why?

The Oracle: They have their reasons, but usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion.

Neo: And why would a program be deleted?

The Oracle: Maybe it breaks down. Maybe a better program is created to replace it – happens all the time, and when it does, a program can either choose to hide here, or return to The Source.

The Matrix Reloaded (transcript)

Programs which have broken down and choose exile instead of voluntary deletion constitute a threat since they are not under the control of the system and do not obey the rules of physics that blue pills in the Matrix are familiar with. Agents are tasked with neutralizing the threat posed by these exile programs."

So are these Exile Programs in our universe?

But these definitely are. There were just thousands and thousands of Humanoid, etc, encounters over several decades:

How do you know if something is Exile Program or not? Is the following real?

I don't know what to write anymore. By the way. The Matrix writers got the idea of Exile Programs from top researchers in the field who first proposed them decades before the Matrix.

 

[Klystron]

While familiar with the first three movies of "The Matrix" series, own the DVDs so to speak; I have not viewed subsequent Matrix material. Perhaps the OP can summarize the story links included above. Specific to the original thread topic, I do not imagine Neo 'walks through walls' as much as Neo determines the nature of his perceived reality that allows him to see walls as streams of computer code that he learns to manipulate.

Also enjoyed other work by writer-directors The Wachowskis; formerly the Wachowski Brothers, including "Bound" and "V for Vendetta". The character Trinity owes much to the developing female character in "Bound", becoming within the Matrix dominant leather-bound Trinity.

It would be facile to dismiss Neo as yet another Golden Child myth, mankind's reluctant savior. Larry Fishburn's teacher character (I forget his cognomen) rescues both Neo and the plot by explaining his concept of 'residual self image' within the confines of the Matrix while instructing Neo. Keanu Reeves has always acted to mixed reviews but I tend to agree with "Buddha" director Bernardo Bertolucci that Keanu creates and inhabits his portrayals through a mix of physical beauty and emotional calm.

We first encounter Neo as a small time programmer hustling underground computer wares, simply dressed living alone in a poor apartment. Under Fishburn's tutelage Neo's standard of living in the Matrix visibly improves along with his clothing and physical identity. The contrast between Neo in real life versus on the Internet; I mean in the Matrix, becomes more profound once his physical body is released from the battery cells to join the crew on a ship. Online Neo looks regal and magnificent in his designer wardrobe even as Neo-actual eats gruel aboard ship wearing secondhand clothes replete with unravelling holes.

So, the Wachowskis indicate that self aware members of the Matrix/Internet carry their 'residual self image' into their online lives and characters; surpassing the plebian tawdry aspects of physical existence.

[Edit: Larry Fishburne of "Apocalypse, Now!" fame plays Morpheus in "The Matrix".]

 

[cybernetichero]

The Matrix writers got the idea of Exile Programs from top researchers in the field who first proposed them decades before the Matrix.

self aware members of the Matrix/Internet carry their 'residual self image' into their online lives and characters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortical_homunculus

 

[Cobul]

While familiar with the first three movies of "The Matrix" series, own the DVDs so to speak; I have not viewed subsequent Matrix material. Perhaps the OP can summarize the story links included above. Specific to the original thread topic, I do not imagine Neo 'walks through walls' as much as Neo determines the nature of his perceived reality that allows him to see walls as streams of computer code that he learns to manipulate.

Did you all forget it? That conversations with the Oracle occurred in Part II of the Matrix called Matrix Reloaded. Remember this scene of the Oracle and Smith Brawl.

(I saw this at youtube, jump to 2:50 time stamp)

Well. I didn't forget the scene but forgot the conversations or simply was not aware of the story about the Exile Programs at all :)

I'll ponder your analysis.

But you admit the possibility our constants of nature couldn't be derived by any formula, nor did they evolve from previous universe? What if they were designed just like the Matrix but where the real universe was not 4D spacetime and baryonic matter but composed of something totally different?

Also enjoyed other work by writer-directors The Wachowskis; formerly the Wachowski Brothers, including "Bound" and "V for Vendetta". The character Trinity owes much to the developing female character in "Bound", becoming within the Matrix dominant leather-bound Trinity.

It would be facile to dismiss Neo as yet another Golden Child myth, mankind's reluctant savior. Larry Fishburn's teacher character (I forget his cognomen) rescues both Neo and the plot by explaining his concept of 'residual self image' within the confines of the Matrix while instructing Neo. Keanu Reeves has always acted to mixed reviews but I tend to agree with "Buddha" director Bernardo Bertolucci that Keanu creates and inhabits his portrayals through a mix of physical beauty and emotional calm.

We first encounter Neo as a small time programmer hustling underground computer wares, simply dressed living alone in a poor apartment. Under Fishburn's tutelage Neo's standard of living in the Matrix visibly improves along with his clothing and physical identity. The contrast between Neo in real life versus on the Internet; I mean in the Matrix, becomes more profound once his physical body is released from the battery cells to join the crew on a ship. Online Neo looks regal and magnificent in his designer wardrobe even as Neo-actual eats gruel aboard ship wearing secondhand clothes replete with unravelling holes.

So, the Wachowskis indicate that self aware members of the Matrix/Internet carry their 'residual self image' into their online lives and characters; surpassing the plebian tawdry aspects of physical existence.

[Edit: Larry Fishburne of "Apocalypse, Now!" fame plays Morpheus in "The Matrix".]