What is the connection between acetone on breath and diabetes?

[Moonbear]

The reason I eat the rice and beans is because someone told me this combination constitutes a "perfect" protein, whatever that means. I'm wondering if when eaten together like this they cease being carbs and become proteins.

They're still carbs, at least the carb part. The reference to a complete protein is that together, they provide all the essential amino acids the body needs for making proteins. If you ate either of them alone, you'd wind up with a protein deficiency due to lack of essential amino acids (the ones your body can't make itself out of precursors, so need to be included in your diet).

I mentioned tuna fish. I also eat sardines (packed in water only) and kippered snacks now and then. These are the leanest meat proteins I could think of. I went for a couple chicken kebobs once but they were just too greasy for me to keep in the diet.

The rice and beans I heat up in a skillet with chopped onions and garlic, and top off with even more granulated garlic. I add a chopped celery stalk and a cut up tomato half. Sometimes I add soy sauce to this. I use a bare minimun of olive oil to sautee the onions and garlic, maybe half a teaspoon. Without the garlic and onions it's too bland. I really pour on the granulated garlic.

Sounds pretty good. I make a very simple black bean dish...just sautee a chopped onion and minced garlic (I use a little butter, but you could substitute a little olive oil...you only need a small amount to get the onions and garlic sauteed), add the beans, and some oregano. The oregano really gives it an extra kick.

For other types of beans, I cheat and use some flavoring packets. I use the Adobo and Jamon seasonings that Goya makes to help with flavor.

I put a heaping teaspoon of Recaito (you can find it in jars also made by Goya, maybe other brands in the freezer section if you're in an area with more of an Hispanic population...my ethnic food choices are limited where I live, so it's jars for me) to about a teaspoon or two of olive oil in a large sautee pan. I add a packet of each of the seasonings, plus a little salt and pepper, then about 3 cans of beans (I prefer pink beans, but it's also fine with white or red navy beans). Leave some of the liquid from the cans of beans (depending on whether you like lots of "sauce" or very little liquid, you can decide how much to add...usually I add one can with all the liquid and then drain the other two a bit). I then add a small can of tomato sauce (I think they're 4 oz cans...the really little ones). Bring it to a boil, then reduce to a simmer while you make the rice. Again, you can add a bit of hot sauce if you prefer. I'll eat that as a meal, but you can also use it as a side dish.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I've been googling during the down time and think I've pinpointed the cause of my confusion.

Somehow the way I've been eating has produced fat loss. It seems to me that all this fat must have been turned to ketones to be burned away.

This seems to be true. All the sites seem to agree that fat stores are only used when other fuel sources have been depleted and that the only way fat is used is by being made into ketones. At least, I haven't found mention of any alternate way fat is used up.

Turning fat to ketones is called "ketosis".

This does not seem to be true:

ketosis

<biochemistry> Metabolic production of abnormal amounts of ketones. A consequence of diabetes melittus.

http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=ketosis&action=Search+OMD

ke·to·sis (k-tss)
n. pl. ke·to·ses (-sz)
A pathological increase in the production of ketone bodies, as in uncontrolled diabetes mellitus.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ketosis

One entry found for ketosis.
Main Entry: ke·to·sis
Pronunciation: kemacron-primarystresstomacr-sschwas
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -to·ses /-secondarystresssemacronz/
1 : an abnormal increase of ketone bodies in the body in conditions of reduced or disturbed carbohydrate metabolism (as in uncontrolled diabetes mellitus) -- compare ACIDOSIS, ALKALOSIS
- ke·tot·ic /-primarystresstät-ik/ adjective

http://www2.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwmednlm?book=Medical&va=ketosis

In summary, it seems that the term ketosis only refers to a condition where the ketones have built up to an abnormal, or pathological level.

Yet, the first sentence of the Wikipedia definition says:

Ketosis (IPA pronunciation: [ki'tosɪs]) is a stage in metabolism occurring when the liver has been depleted of stored glycogen and switches to a chronic fasting mode during long periods of starvation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

This, and the rest of that article, imply nothing abnormal or pathological about ketosis and seem to merely be describing it as the process whereby fat is employed for energy when other sources have been depleted. It does not define ketosis as that point in ketone buildup where the levels become abnormal or dangerous, as the medical dictionaries do

Another site I found by googling medical dictionaries describes ketosis the same way:

Ketosis

1. Definition

Definition

Ketosis is a process in which your body converts fats into energy. During the conversion, ketones are produced as a by-product. Ketones can give your breath a sweet, fruity smell that may be mistaken for alcohol.

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=221
Further down it only characterizes ketosis (here: the conversion of fat to energy) as bad when it is prolonged

I get the notion from this that there is confusion, or possible disagreement, about this term even among people who are conversant with biology.

I said:

Therefore, It seems to me I must have been in ketosis many times during this diet. Not "ketotic" or "in ketoacidosis", just in ketosis: turning fat to ketones.

I think my logic is sound here despite the fact I was provided with a incorrect term by the Wikipedia.

By checking all the words beginning with keto- I could find in the medical dictionaries, I discovered one that probably fits the bill: ketogenesis.

Ketogenesis is the process by which ketone bodies are produced as a result of fatty acid breakdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenesis

If I rewrite my statement substituting this word, it becomes what I meant to say:

Therefore, it seems to me I must have been in ketogenesis many times during this diet. Not "ketotic" or "in ketoacidosis", just in ketogenesis: turning fat to ketones.

This article on ketogenesis from the Wikipedia makes the distinction between the two terms clear:

Ketone bodies are created at moderate levels in everyone's bodies, such as during sleep and other times when no carbohydrates are available. However, when ketogenesis is happening at abnormally high levels, the body is said to be in a state of ketosis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenesis
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Back to acetone breath. This site might offer a clue:

Atkins appears to have invented the term BDK to denote a state of mild ketosis without hyperglycemia. This commonly results from eating a low-carb diet, or fasting, so the body has to burn stored fat. As a note, this sort of ketosis is what causes morning breath, because our body often runs out of carbs during the night.

http://patrifriedman.com/writing/journal/expat/975ketosis.html

It is in agreement with the Wikipedia article on ketogenesis that we normally resort to producing ketones during sleep when our carbs run out, but it asserts that this is enough to make the breath smell of acetone. Morning breath can be caused by many things, of course, but if this is authentically one of them then this is most likely the cause of the smell that alarmed the dentist.

My intake of carbs has been lower than ever lately and I'm sure I've been running out earlier and earlier during sleep. The appointment was at 9:15 A.M. and I went over there not having eaten any breakfast to stop the ketogenesis.

That's a hypothesis, anyway, pending some better sources to substantiate this normal, nightime production of ketones than the Wikipedia and the other site (that author makes no claim except to be a researcher).

 

[Lisa!]

The GP I saw today listened to my report that the dentist had warned me of an acetone on my breath and the possibility this meant diabetes. She (the GP) said, "We'll have a look at your blood sugar". This took about 10 seconds. She said my blood sugar was 79 and that that was perfectly alright.

"O.K." she said, "We've completely eliminated that possibility."

Wow! I was sure that the dentist has made a mistake.

!

Thanks!:!)

BTW, don't forget that you're not allowed to be a member of the deceased PFer's club that soon!