What is the Connection Between Rank and Free Modules?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concepts of rank, free modules, and bases within the context of R-modules, particularly focusing on examples and counterexamples that illustrate the nuances of these definitions. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in both integral domains and specific modules, referencing definitions and theorems from algebraic structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the definition of rank for an R-module, noting that it is the maximal number of R-linearly independent elements.
  • Counterexamples are provided, such as \(\mathbb{Z}_2\) being a Z-module of rank 0 but not free, and \(\mathbb{Q}\) being a non-free Z-module.
  • Participants explore the k[X,Y]-module generated by (X,Y), noting it has rank 2, is torsion-free, but is not free due to issues of uniqueness in representation.
  • There is mention of a claim that two different basis sets for an R-module may have different cardinalities, with participants seeking examples to illustrate this point.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the application of the Fundamental Theorem of Finitely Generated Abelian Groups to demonstrate why \(\mathbb{Q}\) is not a free Z-module.
  • Another participant suggests that if \(\mathbb{Q}\) were free, it would lead to a contradiction based on cardinality arguments, but this reasoning is not fully grasped by all participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and some examples, but there is disagreement and uncertainty regarding the implications of these examples, particularly concerning \(\mathbb{Q}\) and the application of the Fundamental Theorem. The discussion remains unresolved on some points, especially regarding the uniqueness of bases and the cardinality of different basis sets.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of certain concepts, such as the application of the Fundamental Theorem of Finitely Generated Abelian Groups and the uniqueness of representations in modules. There is also an ongoing search for concrete examples to illustrate claims about different cardinalities of basis sets.

arthurhenry
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I am trying to understand the notions of rank of an R-Module, free-module, basis, etc.
I would like to understand this line (expand on it, find some critical examples/counterexamples ,etc) that I am quoting from Dummit & Foote:

"If the ring R=F is a field, then any maximal set of F-linearly independent elements is a basis for M (the module) . For a general integral domain, however, an R-Module M of rank n need not have a basis, i.e., need not be a free R-Module even if M is torsion free, so some care is necessary..."

Before this came the definition: For an integral domain R, the rank of an R-module is the maximal number of R-linearly independent elements of M.

Thank you
 
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Hi arthurhenry! :smile:

Here are some counterexamples that you could ponder on:

- \mathbb{Z}_2 is a Z-module of rank 0, but not free.
- \mathbb{Q} is a non-free Z-module
- The k[X,Y]-module (X,Y) of k[X,Y] is of rank 2, is torsion-free, but is not free.
 
Thank you Micromass, this is great...

I think I understand and I am trying to clarify; so response warranted if correct:

1) Z_2 is a Z-Module of rank 0, because not even one element of Z_2 is R-indepenedent. That is, take the element 1 in Z_2, there exists a non-zero integer m in Z (for example 2) such that m.1=0
So the rank is zero.
Also, the element 1 in Z_2 can be expressed in more than (not unique) way. For example, 3.1 is the same as 5.1, where 5 and 3 are in the ring Z. So it is not free. Page 354 Dummit & Foote says that not only the module elements need to be unique, but also the ring elements.

3) Here I am assuming you are referring to the ideal generated by (X,Y)...
If so, then, an ideal is a subring and is an abelian group, so the ring acts on it and we get a module (I understand)
It is rank 2 because rX+sY is not zero for any nonzero elements r and s in k[X,Y]. It is torsion free (i understand this part).
It is not free, though, because X.X+Y.Y=1.(X^2)+1.(Y^2), so the uniqueness fails I believe.

3) Q again fails to be free because of uniqueness I believe.
 
There is yet another comment on
http://planetmath.org/encyclopedia/RankOfAModule.html

which says that two different basis sets for an R-Module may have different cardinality.
This one I cannot produce an example for (I am trying two finite cases for example)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
arthurhenry said:
Thank you Micromass, this is great...

I think I understand and I am trying to clarify; so response warranted if correct:

1) Z_2 is a Z-Module of rank 0, because not even one element of Z_2 is R-indepenedent. That is, take the element 1 in Z_2, there exists a non-zero integer m in Z (for example 2) such that m.1=0
So the rank is zero.
Also, the element 1 in Z_2 can be expressed in more than (not unique) way. For example, 3.1 is the same as 5.1, where 5 and 3 are in the ring Z. So it is not free. Page 354 Dummit & Foote says that not only the module elements need to be unique, but also the ring elements.

3) Here I am assuming you are referring to the ideal generated by (X,Y)...
If so, then, an ideal is a subring and is an abelian group, so the ring acts on it and we get a module (I understand)
It is rank 2 because rX+sY is not zero for any nonzero elements r and s in k[X,Y]. It is torsion free (i understand this part).
It is not free, though, because X.X+Y.Y=1.(X^2)+1.(Y^2), so the uniqueness fails I believe.

3) Q again fails to be free because of uniqueness I believe.

Looks good!
That Q is not free is maybe a bit more difficult to see, but it follows from a very important theorem: the fundamental theorem of finitely generated abelian groups. You'll see this in Dummit & Foote sooner or later (section 5.2 page 158).
I just wanted to put Q here because it's such a beautiful example!

arthurhenry said:
There is yet another comment on
http://planetmath.org/encyclopedia/RankOfAModule.html

which says that two different basis sets for an R-Module may have different cardinality.
This one I cannot produce an example for (I am trying two finite cases for example)

See http://planetmath.org/?op=getobj&from=objects&id=10670 :smile:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay, perhaps I rushed in saying that I see why Q is not a free Z-Module.

I am not able to see it. I am also not seeing how I can apply Fund. Theroem. of Fin. Gen. Abelian groups.
Are you suggesting Micromass that "use it to get a contadiction"...I guess I am not sure if I see what is fin. generated.
Thank you

p.s. don't want to give up thinking, but I was not able to see the connection
 
arthurhenry said:
Okay, perhaps I rushed in saying that I see why Q is not a free Z-Module.

I am not able to see it. I am also not seeing how I can apply Fund. Theroem. of Fin. Gen. Abelian groups.
Are you suggesting Micromass that "use it to get a contadiction"...I guess I am not sure if I see what is fin. generated.
Thank you

p.s. don't want to give up thinking, but I was not able to see the connection

OK, you don't really need it, what was I saying? :frown:

Anyway, if Q were free, then it would be isomorphic to ZI for a set I. But a cardinality-argument show that ZI is only countable if I is finite. So Q has to be isomorphic to a certain Zn, but this is impossible: take any finite set in Q, you can always find a number not generated by that set.
 

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