What is the definition of 2^M and how can it be determined?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the definition and properties of the notation \(2^M\), particularly in the context of set theory. Participants explore its meaning as the powerset, investigate specific examples, and consider implications of set operations involving Cartesian products.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define \(2^M\) as the powerset, providing examples such as \(2^{\{a,b\}} = \{\varnothing, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}\}\).
  • There is a proposal that \(2^M\) for \(M = \{7,4,0,3\}\) includes all subsets of \(M\), listing them explicitly.
  • Participants discuss the expression \(2^{A \times B}\) and question whether it can be represented as \(\{A' \times B' \mid A' \subseteq A, B' \subseteq B\}\), with some arguing it does not fit this form.
  • One participant suggests that there cannot be a set \(M\) such that \(2^M = \emptyset\), reasoning that the empty set is always included in the powerset.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on why \(2^{A \times B}\) would not include sets of the form \(\{a_i, b_j\}\) and questions the distinction between \(2^{\{1, 2\}}\) and \(2^{\{2, 1\}}\) in terms of Cartesian products.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of \(2^M\) as the powerset, but there is contention regarding the representation of \(2^{A \times B}\) and whether it can be expressed in the proposed form. The discussion remains unresolved on these points.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of their claims and the completeness of their examples, particularly regarding the notation and definitions used in set theory.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in set theory, mathematical notation, and the properties of powersets and Cartesian products may find this discussion relevant.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

  1. Let $M:=\{7,4,0,3\}$. Determine $2^M$.
  2. Prove or disprove $2^{A\times B}=\{A'\times B'\mid A'\subseteq A, B'\subseteq B\}$.
  3. Let $a\neq b\in \mathbb{R}$ and $M:=2^{\{a,b\}}$. Determine $2^M$.
  4. Is there a set $M$, such that $2^M=\emptyset$ ?

First of all how is $2^M$ defined? Is this the powerset? (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
First of all how is $2^M$ defined? Is this the powerset?

Hey mathmari!

Yep.
So $2^{\{a,b\}}=\{\varnothing,\{a\},\{b\},\{a,b\}\}$. (Thinking)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Yep.
So $2^{\{a,b\}}=\{\varnothing,\{a\},\{b\},\{a,b\}\}$. (Thinking)

So we have the following:
  1. $2^M=\{\emptyset, \{7\}, \{4\}, \{0\}, \{3\}, \{7,4\}, \{7,0\}, \{7,3\}, \{4,0\}, \{4,3\}, \{0,3\},\{7,4,0\}, \{7,4,3\}, \{7,0,3\}, \{4,0,3\}, \{7,4,0,3\}$
  2. $2^{A\times B}=\text{ set of every subset of } A\times B=\{(a,b)\mid a\in A, b\in B\}$.

    So it is of the form $2^{A\times B}=\{\emptyset, \{(a_i, b_i)\}, \{(a_i, b_i), (a_j, b_j)\}, \cdots \}$, or not?

    This is not of the form $\{A'\times B'\mid A'\subseteq A, B'\subseteq B\}$, is it? (Wondering)
  3. We have that $M=\{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}\}$.

    The $2^M=\{\emptyset, \{\emptyset\}, \{\{a\}\},\{\{b\}\}, \{\{a,b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a,b\}\}, \{\{a\}, \{b\}\}, \{\{a\}, \{a,b\}\}, \{\{a,b\}, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a,b\}, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}\}$

    Is this correct? Or do I miss something? (Wondering)
  4. There isn't such a set, since at least the emptyset is contained in the powerset. Is this correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
So we have the following:

1. $2^M=\{\emptyset, \{7\}, \{4\}, \{0\}, \{3\}, \{7,4\}, \{7,0\}, \{7,3\}, \{4,0\}, \{4,3\}, \{0,3\},\{7,4,0\}, \{7,4,3\}, \{7,0,3\}, \{4,0,3\}, \{7,4,0,3\}$

2. $2^{A\times B}=\text{ set of every subset of } A\times B=\{(a,b)\mid a\in A, b\in B\}$.

So it is of the form $2^{A\times B}=\{\emptyset, \{(a_i, b_i)\}, \{(a_i, b_i), (a_j, b_j)\}, \cdots \}$, or not?

This is not of the form $\{A'\times B'\mid A'\subseteq A, B'\subseteq B\}$, is it? (Wondering)

3. We have that $M=\{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}\}$.

The $2^M=\{\emptyset, \{\emptyset\}, \{\{a\}\},\{\{b\}\}, \{\{a,b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a,b\}\}, \{\{a\}, \{b\}\}, \{\{a\}, \{a,b\}\}, \{\{a,b\}, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a,b\}, \{b\}\}, \{\emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}\}$

Is this correct? Or do I miss something?

4. There isn't such a set, since at least the emptyset is contained in the powerset. Is this correct?

All correct.
Did you miss something? Only the closing brace. (Tauri)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
All correct.
Did you miss something? Only the closing brace. (Tauri)

Great! At 2 how can we disprove that formally? (Wondering)
 
A question of my own.

Say we have [math]A = \{1, 2, 4 \}[/math] and [math]B = \{ 1, 2, 3 \}[/math]

Why wouldn't [math]2^{A \times B}[/math] have sets with the form [math]\{ a_i, b_j \}[/math] rather than just [math]\{ a_i, b_i \}[/math]?

And, since we are talking about a Cartesian product wouldn't [math]2^{ \{ 1, 2 \} }[/math] be different from [math]2^{ \{ 2, 1 \} }[/math]?

Thanks!

-Dan
 

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