What is the Expansion of the Universe and What Material is it Expanding Into?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the expansion of the universe, specifically questioning what it is expanding into and the implications of such expansion. Participants explore theoretical scenarios, including the possibility of multiple universes and the effects of a spinning universe on scientific laws. The scope includes conceptual and theoretical aspects of cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what material the universe is expanding into, suggesting it may be "nothing" or "hyperspace."
  • There are hypothetical scenarios proposed regarding the interaction of two expanding universes and whether they would share the same physical laws.
  • Some participants express confusion about the nature of the universe's expansion, questioning how it can expand if there is nothing to expand into.
  • One participant suggests visualizing the universe's expansion as a trumpet shape, indicating that it does not need to expand into anything for its size to increase over time.
  • There is a challenge to the idea of the universe moving, with some arguing that it cannot move into anything and that the expansion is a change in distance rather than a movement through space.
  • Questions are raised about the implications of synchronous motion on the perception of time and motion within the universe.
  • Some participants express a desire for clarification on the concept of what is actually expanding within the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of the universe's expansion, with no consensus reached. Some agree that the universe is not expanding into anything, while others continue to question and explore the implications of such a notion.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of complex cosmological concepts, and there are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and implications of expansion and motion in the universe.

dgoodpasture2005
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okay... i was thinking about the expansion of the universe... and i questioned, "what material is it expanding into? Nothing?"(What's outside of the universe?) So i decided to pick up 2 paper plates(and viewed them as universes... like from an extrospective universal view)... and i brainstormed a little... and i came to a couple of questions... What if the universe is spinning and what affects might this have on all scientific laws? Would the rate at which it's spinning effect anything at all? and also... if there are 2 universes... what would happen when they expand into each other... what would you see?... if you were near the edge of the universe when it reached the other universe... I don't think you'd even notice anything. Yeah you wouldn't.. It'd be impossible... you'd just think that the universe was bigger than you though it was before, because the light from that other universe would start to reach you. Or maybe that'd just be the only way to prove if it is true; the sudden appearance of light. NOTE: This is all hyopthetical, but please try and take me seriously! :smile: Any added questions or theories are welcomed! One other question... if all objects moved in synchronism, 'causing the illusion of no motion, would this do anything to time as we know it?
 
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I know this is theoretical.. but if two universes exist...(just like 2 galaxies) and they expand into each other, would we have to assume that they both consist of the same basic laws? And if they didn't.. oh wow...
 
dgoodpasture2005 said:
What if the universe is spinning and what affects might this have on all scientific laws? Would the rate at which it's spinning effect anything at all?

...

One other question... if all objects moved in synchronism, 'causing the illusion of no motion, would this do anything to time as we know it?

Aren't these two kind of meaningless when talking about the whole universe? I mean how can the universe 'move' when it has nothing to move into? I'm no cosmologist though, so I don't really know anything about this.
 
matthyaouw said:
Aren't these two kind of meaningless when talking about the whole universe? I mean how can the universe 'move' when it has nothing to move into? I'm no cosmologist though, so I don't really know anything about this.

Well that's what lead me to question... what is the universe expanding into? If it could theoretically be spinning... then wouldn't it have to be spinning on something? If it can expand... then what the heck is it expanding? and into what? I know i probably won't get any direct answers, but i just want to hear what you all have to say... the more info the better chance at a conclusion. No question is stupid... sometimes you get answers you never expected in the end.
 
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The universe isn't expanding intto anything. You can't just use your intuitions about small scale things when talking about spacetime. The distance between things is getting bigger as time progresses; the manifold counting its time dimension has a certain shape but it isn't "doing" anything.
 
selfAdjoint said:
The universe isn't expanding intto anything. You can't just use your intuitions about small scale things when talking about spacetime. The distance between things is getting bigger as time progresses; the manifold counting its time dimension has a certain shape but it isn't "doing" anything.

Can you break this down for me, I'm having trouble understanding it. Please.. thank you :)
 
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The universe is four dimensional, with time being the fourth dimension (there may or may not be other "compacted dimensions"). To imagine the expansion, think of a trumpet shape with the bell upward. The tube starts out narrow at the bottom and widens as you move up. Just so the universe starts tiny (but of course now with three spatial dimensions instead to the two in the cross-section of the trumpet), and gets bigger as time moves forward. But in four dimensions, that is just its shape. The trumpet didn't have to expand or move in order for its bell to be wider than its mouthpiece, and the universe doesn't have to expand "into" anything for its late state to be bigger than its early state.
 
I suppose i need to read a little more on exactly WHAT is expanding, and to where... i was under the impression that the universe was "expanding", pertaining to its "walls"... that's where I'm confused. Liike an expanding bubble, or blowing up a balloon.
 
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How does something expand within itself? I don't understand any of this. I still can only find evidence of the universe as an expanding bubble, and everything in it, expanding along with it.. which still leads me to question, what it is expanding into. "Hyperspace"? [EDIT]
And what IS expanding... saying the "universe" is quite vague isn't it?... what part of the universe? Some materials that can somehow move at faster than the speed of light?!
 
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