What is the experimental basis for Einstein's conclusion on the Helium atom?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the experimental basis for Einstein's conclusions regarding the Helium atom, particularly in relation to quantum mechanics and the limitations of earlier models such as Bohr's planetary model. Participants explore the historical context, theoretical implications, and experimental verifications related to spherical harmonics and quantum theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses interest in the experimental verification of Laplace's spherical harmonics and whether they are purely theoretical in the context of quantum mechanics.
  • Another participant references a historical letter from Schrödinger discussing de Broglie's theory and the subsequent development of his wave equation.
  • A participant notes the limitation of old quantum theory, specifically the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization, which could only apply to integrable systems, suggesting this may have influenced Schrödinger's search for a new equation.
  • There is a request for information regarding the experimental basis for Einstein's assertion that the Helium atom is a classically non-integrable system, highlighting the lack of scientific publications confirming the spherical harmonic fields predicted by Schrödinger's wave functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the experimental basis for Einstein's conclusions or the verification of spherical harmonics, indicating that multiple views and uncertainties remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects limitations in available experimental evidence and the challenges associated with verifying theoretical predictions in quantum mechanics.

AntonHoltz
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hello,

As a science writer, I've tasked myself with acquiring a thorough theoretical and historical understanding
of Quantum Mechanics.

It would be interesting to know if there has ever been any experimental verification of Laplace's
spherical harmonics, relating to the quantum mechanical model of the atom; Or if spherical harmonics
are purely a theoretical mathematical solution to 3 dimensional cartesian electron orbital locations
at the various quantum energy levels.

It would also be interesting to know which experimental discovery lead to the abandonment of Bohr's planetary model
of the atom, in old quantum mechanics, the scientists who performed the experiment, as well as the date and location
the experiment occurred, and the process through which this discovery lead to the current quantum model.Kind regards,

A. Holtz

.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies/Schrödinger.html
"On 16 November, in another letter, Schrödinger wrote:-

I have been intensely concerned these days with Louis de Broglie's ingenious theory. It is extraordinarily exciting, but still has some very grave difficulties.

One week later Schrödinger gave a seminar on de Broglie's work and a member of the audience, a student of Sommerfeld's, suggested that there should be a wave equation. Within a few weeks Schrödinger had found his wave equation. "
 
One problem with old quantum theory and the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization is that it could only quantize 'integrable' systems, which are systems in which all motions are periodic. I don't know if that was part of Schrödinger's motivation in searching for his equation. Einstein did know of this limitation of the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantization. http://homepages.ulb.ac.be/~gaspard/G.quantum.Encycl.05.pdf
 
.

Thank you for the Quantum Theory PDF link atyy, this is quite interesting.

The only missing information is the experimental basis for Einstein's conclusion
that the Helium atom is a classically non-integrable system.

"In 1917, Albert Einstein pointed out that the Bohr–Sommerfeld quantization rule cannot be applied to classically non-integrable systems (such as helium atom), and it slowly became apparent that radically new ideas were required."Thus far, I've been unable to find any scientific publications confirming the spherical harmonic fields
predicted by Schrödinger wave functions. Perhaps not surprising given the technical challenges..
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
562
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
12K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
6K