What Is the General Formula for the N'th Derivative of f(x)^n?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around finding a general formula for the N'th derivative of the function \( f(x)^n \). Participants explore various mathematical approaches, including induction and the use of specific theorems, while addressing the complexity of the problem and the recursive nature of some formulas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about a general formula for \( \frac{d^n}{dx^n} f(x)^n \) and shares initial results from Mathematica for the first four derivatives.
  • Another participant suggests using mathematical induction as a method to derive the formula, questioning the meaning of the notation used in the derivative expression.
  • A third participant confirms their attempt at induction but expresses difficulty in finding a solution, indicating potential gaps in understanding.
  • A theorem is presented that relates to the product of two functions, suggesting that choosing appropriate functions could aid in solving the original problem.
  • A participant shares a formula they found in tables, which involves recursive definitions and references Faà di Bruno's formula, highlighting its complexity and the limitations of Mathematica regarding multivariate Bell polynomials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the general formula for the N'th derivative, and multiple competing approaches and viewpoints remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in understanding the notation and the complexity of the formulas involved, particularly regarding recursive definitions and the application of specific mathematical theorems.

fs0
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Hey,

does anyone know a general formula for
[tex]\frac{d^n}{dx^n}f(x)^n[/tex]

I couldn't find in any tables I had and I have trouble figuring out the pattern.
Code:
Array[D[f[x]^#, {x, #}] &, {4}]
in Mathematica gives first four terms:

[tex]f'(x)[/tex]

[tex]2f(x)f^{(2)}(x)+2f^{(1)}(x)^2[/tex]

[tex]18f(x)f^{(1)}(x)f^{(2)}(x)+3f(x)^2f^{(3)}(x)+6 f^{(1)}(x)^3[/tex]

[tex]144f(x)f^{(1)}(x)^2 f^{(2)}(x)+36f(x)^2f^{(2)}(x)^2+48f(x)^2f^{(1)}(x)f^{(3)}(x)+4f(x)^3f^{(4)}(x)+24f^{(1)}(x)^4[/tex]

Thanks for any help.
 
Last edited:
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Far Out!
Lovely mathematical induction,
(when i say test i mean substitute)
they way they tought us back in school was
1. test for 1, (yes the numerical value 1)
2. assume with K (that's just fill n with K and normally don't simplify it)
3. test for K+1 (substitute and solve)

if that works were on our first step (should give you the pattern)

now I'm from a country where physics and mathematics aren't appreciated, so i must ask when it states the letter d is d a proneumeral or does it mean derivative, and is that a derivative on the approaching power of n, it's just we use both d and ' .
if we can get that out of the way we can get a good foot in solving the problem.
 
@Argonaught:
The very first thing I did was try induction (I even did some other proofs to make sure I remember how to do it correctly :) ) but I still can't figure it out. I'm probably missing something obvious here, hence my question on the forum.
As for the latter part of your post, far out to you too, man :)
 
There's a theorem:

[tex]\frac{d^n}{dx^n}(h(x)g(x)) = \sum_{k=0}^n {_n}C_k h^{(n-k)}(x)g^{(k)}(x)[/tex]
where [itex]{_n}C_{k}[/itex] is the binomial coefficient

[tex]{_n}C_k =\frac{n!}{k!(n-k)!}.[/tex]

Choosing h(x) and g(x) appropriately may help with your problem.
 
I found a formula I missed earlier in the tables that gives
[tex]\frac{d^n}{dx^n}\left[f(x)^p\right]=p\left(\begin{matrix}n-p&\\n\\\end{matrix}\right)\sum_{j}^{} (-1)^j \left(\begin{matrix}n&\\j\\\end{matrix}\right) \frac{f(x)^{p-j}}{p-j}\frac{d^n}{dx^n}\left[f(x)^j\right][/tex]

but it didn't really help much because of it's recursive definition. Turns out using http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FaadiBrunosFormula.html" . So that

[tex]\frac{d^n}{dx^n}\left[f(x)^n\right]=\sum_{k=1}^{n}(-1)^k (-n)_{k}f(x)^{n-k} B_{n,k}\left(\frac{d}{dx}\left[f(x)\right],\,...\, ,\frac{d^n}{dx^n}\left[f(x)\right]\right)[/tex]

where [tex](a)_{k}[/tex] is Pochhammer symbol. Strangely Mathematica does not implement multivariate version of Bell polynomials, so if anyone ever needs one:

Code:
B[n_, k_, X_] := Module[{
    p = Table[Permutations[PadRight[p, n-k+1]], {p, IntegerPartitions[k]}],
    testf = (Sum[j #[[j]], {j, 1, n-k+1}]==n)&&(Sum[#[[j]], {j, 1, n - k + 1}]==k) &
    },
   Expand[n!Sum[Product[Power[X[[j]]/(j!), pk[[j]]]/(pk[[j]]!), {j, 1, n-k+1}],
      {pk, Select[Flatten[p, 1], testf]}
      ]]
   ];

(* eg: *)
B[6, 3, Array[Subscript[x,#]&, {6}]]
 
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