What is the impact of nonperturbative effects on time-dependent quantum theory?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the impact of nonperturbative effects on time-dependent quantum theory, particularly in relation to the challenges posed by divergent series in perturbation theory, such as the Dyson series. Participants explore the implications of these divergences and the potential need for alternative approaches to quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that for time-dependent Hamiltonians, assumptions like causality are necessary to maintain unitarity in time evolution, which raises questions about the adequacy of perturbation theory.
  • Another participant argues that divergent series can be asymptotic and cites examples from other fields, although they express uncertainty about whether the perturbation series in quantum electrodynamics (QED) is asymptotic.
  • A participant emphasizes that the divergence of perturbation series does not reflect poorly on quantum mechanics itself but indicates that nonperturbative effects exist that are not captured by perturbation theory, such as quantum tunneling.
  • There is a suggestion that nonperturbative treatments, including numerical solutions, are necessary to account for effects like tunneling, which may resemble nonlinear behavior.
  • Another participant connects the necessity of nonperturbative effects to nonlinear equations, referencing their relevance in general relativity and black hole problems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of divergent series in perturbation theory and the necessity of nonperturbative effects. There is no consensus on whether perturbation theory is sufficient or if alternative approaches are needed.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of perturbation theory, particularly regarding its inability to capture certain nonperturbative effects. The discussion also reflects on the dependence of these arguments on specific definitions and assumptions related to time-dependent quantum theory.

TrickyDicky
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If I haven't understood this tricky stuff very badly when the Hamiltonian is time independent, then Schrödinger’s equation implies that the time evolution of the quantum system is unitary, but for the time-dependent Hamiltonian one must add some mathematically "put by hand" assumptions (although they make physical common sense) like causality and independence of the time evolution operator on the state of the wavefunction to ensure the time evolution operator's unitarity demanded by QM's postulates and conserve the probability density.
Even so, we still often obtain divergent series like the Dyson series, that luckily for small coupling constants get close to experiment in the first terms.
Doesn't this perentorial need of perturbation theory suggest that it would be maybe more natural either a nonlinear or a non unitary approach to time-dependent quantum theory?
 
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Divergent series are not necessarily bad. In some cases they are "asymptotic". An example of a useful asymptotic series is that used in some derivations of Stirling's approximation. However, I don't think it's been shown that the perturbation series in QED is asymptotic.

Divergent asymptotic series in Stirling's formula:
http://aofa.cs.princeton.edu/40asymptotic/
https://people.math.osu.edu/costin.9/pages/p117.pdf

Divergent asymptotic series in classical statistical mechanics:
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-334-statistical-mechanics-ii-statistical-physics-of-fields-spring-2008/lecture-notes/lec12.pdf
 
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TrickyDicky said:
Even so, we still often obtain divergent series like the Dyson series, that luckily for small coupling constants get close to experiment in the first terms.
Doesn't this perentorial need of perturbation theory suggest that it would be maybe more natural either a nonlinear or a non unitary approach to time-dependent quantum theory?

The fact that the power series expansions of perturbation theory are often divergent doesn't mean anything bad about the underlying theory. It just means that perturbation theory isn't the whole story--there are "nonperturbative" effects that are invisible in pertubation theory. For example, quantum tunneling effects generally scale like ##e^{-1/g^2}## where ##g## is some coupling constant. You can never see such effects in a power series expansion in ##g## around ##g = 0##, because ##e^{-1/g^2}## has no series expansion around ##g=0##. Therefore the perturbation series expansion can't be convergent, because if it was it would converge to the wrong value.

But this is a failing of perturbation theory and not quantum mechanics. Nonperturbative treatments--for example, numerical solutions--show the nonpertubative effects like tunneling.
 
The_Duck said:
The fact that the power series expansions of perturbation theory are often divergent doesn't mean anything bad about the underlying theory. It just means that perturbation theory isn't the whole story--there are "nonperturbative" effects that are invisible in pertubation theory. For example, quantum tunneling effects generally scale like ##e^{-1/g^2}## where ##g## is some coupling constant. You can never see such effects in a power series expansion in ##g## around ##g = 0##, because ##e^{-1/g^2}## has no series expansion around ##g=0##. Therefore the perturbation series expansion can't be convergent, because if it was it would converge to the wrong value.

But this is a failing of perturbation theory and not quantum mechanics. Nonperturbative treatments--for example, numerical solutions--show the nonpertubative effects like tunneling.

I was not thinking in terms of what is "bad" or not for for a theory, but precisely pointing at the necessity of the nonperturbative effects and numerical methods you mention, and to me these effects and methods are quite often related to nonlinear effects and equations(say, in GR for instance where numerical methods are often the only possibility for BH hole problems, etc).

You mention quantum tunneling which seems a good example of an effect that resembles a nonlinear behaviour.
 

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