What Is the Infimum of This Set of Superior Limits?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Euge
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Positive Sequences
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around determining the infimum of a set of superior limits related to sequences of positive real numbers. Participants explore the mathematical properties of the limit superior and infimum, considering various sequences and their behaviors as they approach infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the sequence ##a_n=n/x## to show that the expression converges to ##e^{x+1}##, implying that the infimum could be reached as ##x \to 0##.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of the limit superior of the ratio ##a_{n+1}/a_n## being greater than, less than, or equal to 1, indicating that if it exceeds 1, the limsup is infinite.
  • A further exploration considers the case where the limit superior is exactly 1, leading to the conclusion that sequences must approach infinity for the original expression to hold.
  • Participants express uncertainty about formalizing their arguments and whether they have overlooked critical steps in their reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the infimum or the methods to prove it. Multiple competing views and approaches are presented, with participants exploring different sequences and their behaviors without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of proving their claims formally and express uncertainty about the completeness of their arguments. The discussion highlights dependencies on the behavior of sequences and the definitions of limit superior and infimum.

Euge
Gold Member
MHB
POTW Director
Messages
2,072
Reaction score
245
Let ##\mathbb{R}^\omega_{+}## be the set of all sequences ##(a_n)_{n=1}^\infty## of positive real numbers. Determine the infimum $$\inf\left\{\limsup_{n \to \infty} \left(\frac{1 + a_{n+1}}{a_n}\right)^n : (a_n) \in \mathbb{R}^\omega_{+}\right\}$$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbergman, Greg Bernhardt and topsquark
Physics news on Phys.org
First show, by way of contradiction, that ##e## is a lower bound of the set of superior limits. Then show that ##e## is the optimal bound.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbergman, Greg Bernhardt and topsquark
Euge said:
Let ##\mathbb{R}^\omega_{+}## be the set of all sequences ##(a_n)_{n=1}^\infty## of positive real numbers. Determine the infimum $$\inf\left\{\limsup_{n \to \infty} \left(\frac{1 + a_{n+1}}{a_n}\right)^n : (a_n) \in \mathbb{R}^\omega_{+}\right\}$$
Does a proof by definition of limsup and infimum of a set also work? I mean not through contradiction as you suggest.

For example one can look at the sequence ##a_n=n/x##, and see that ##((1+a_{n+1})/a_n)^n## converges to ##e^{x+1}##, where ##x>0##, since we take the infinimum over all limsup, then when ##x\to 0## we get the infimum here.
This is seen as the optimum.
But I don't see how show that every other positive sequence gives a bigger limsup.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
I have some thoughts on progressing towards e being the infimum. Consider ##\limsup{a_{n+1}/a_n}##. First suppose it's larger than 1.
Since ##(1+x)/y > x/y## when x and y are positive, this means we can find ##\epsilon>0## and a subsequence for which ##((1+a_{n+1})/a_n)^n > (1+\epsilon)^n## and hence the limsup is infinity.

On the other hand if ##\limsup{a_{n+1}/a_n} <1## then the sequence decays at least as fast as a geometric sequence and must go to zero. As soon as ##a_n<1## we have ##(1+a_{n+1})/a_n > 1/a_n >1## and again the limsup must be infinity. So the only interesting thing is what happens when the limsup of this ratio is exactly 1.

Edit: now we can consider ##\limsup{(1+a_{n+1})/a_n}##. This must be at least 1 since all we've done is add 1 to the numerator. If it's larger than 1 then clearly ##\limsup{((1+a_{n+1})/a_n)^n}## is infinity. So this must also be 1. For the limsup to be 1 in both cases it must be that ##a_n\to \infty## whenever we restrict to a subsequence that makes ##a_{n_k+1}/a_{n_k}\to 1##.

So we are just interested in sequences ##a_n## going to infinity, and We can rewrite the original expression as ##(1+(a_{n+1}-a_n+1)/a_n)^n## and ,I guess the point is since we know the sequence is going to infinity, ##(a_{n+1}-a_n+1)/a_n)## is at least ##1/n##. Intuitively this is because if ##a_n## grows slower than ##n##, then we have at least ##1/a_n## and we're done. If ##a_n## grows faster, then the ##(a_{n+1}-a_n)/a_n## is at least ##1/n##. Turning this into a formal proof seems tricky and I suspect I missed a clever step to avoid a lot of this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Greg Bernhardt

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K