What is the physics behind GR's diffeomorphism invariance?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the physical motivation behind the diffeomorphism invariance in General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the implications of this invariance in the context of curved spacetime, contrasting it with the invariance under the Poincaré group applicable in special relativity. The conversation delves into theoretical aspects, conceptual clarifications, and the relationship between diffeomorphism invariance and the metric tensor's dynamical nature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of diffeomorphism invariance in GR, suggesting that relativistic equations only need to be invariant under the Poincaré group in flat spacetime.
  • Others argue that in GR, the curvature of spacetime necessitates invariance under general diffeomorphisms, as curved spacetimes may lack an isometry group.
  • One participant emphasizes that laws of physics should be expressed in a form that is agreed upon by all observers, which leads to the principle of diffeomorphism covariance.
  • There is a discussion about the content of diffeomorphism invariance being more significant when the metric tensor is treated as dynamical, rather than merely a statement of general covariance.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that general covariance alone does not link the metric tensor to gravitation without the principle of equivalence.
  • Participants reference Einstein's original arguments regarding the interpretation of coordinates and the implications for general covariance in the context of gravitational fields.
  • Some propose analogies between GR and gauge theories, discussing the potential for localizing special relativity within a framework that incorporates diffeomorphism invariance.
  • Concerns are raised about limiting considerations to local inertial coordinates, as this may hinder the exploration of broader aspects of GR.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects multiple competing views regarding the necessity and implications of diffeomorphism invariance in GR. There is no consensus on whether general covariance alone is sufficient to link the metric tensor to gravitational phenomena, and participants express differing interpretations of its significance.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves complex relationships between diffeomorphism invariance, the nature of the metric tensor, and the equivalence principle, with some assumptions and definitions remaining implicit.

  • #31
stevendaryl said:
The third is subtler, and I don't know whether it is equivalent to the second, or not. It's something like "the indistinguishabilty of points".

I don't understand this well either, but here are some thoughts. It's usually said here that the hole argument says that observables must be relational in gravity. I don't understand this because I think observables must also be relational in special relativity, ie. relative to an inertial frame.

However, what is known is that in pure gravity, there are no gauge invariant local observables. Classically, this problem can be solved if matter is introduced, so that relational aspects of the matter distribution create local observables. There's a discussion of this around Eq 1.1 of http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9404053.

The quantum situation seems trickier, eg. http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0106109, http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0512200.
 

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