What is the probability that there is a burglary given John and Mary calls?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probability of a burglary given that both John and Mary have called. Participants explore the application of Bayes' Theorem and the dependencies between various events related to the scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about applying Bayes' Theorem to find P(B | J & M) and mentions the independence of burglary from other events.
  • Another participant suggests breaking down the problem using Bayes' Theorem and emphasizes the need to determine the independence of J and M, as well as J and M given A.
  • A later reply confirms that J and M are independent of each other but dependent on A, raising the need for specific probabilities like P(J | M & A) and P(M | J & A).
  • Participants discuss two cases regarding the dependencies of J and M on A, leading to different calculations for P(J & M | A) based on assumed relationships.
  • There is a proposal that if no information about dependencies is provided, it might be assumed that J and M are independent given A, leading to a different probability calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the dependencies between the events, leading to multiple competing views on how to calculate the probabilities involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the dependencies between events in probability calculations, with participants noting that the lack of explicit information about these dependencies affects the outcomes.

shivajikobardan
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Homework Statement
What is the probability that there is a burglary given John and Mary calls?
Relevant Equations
bayes theorem maybe.
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this is the question



Here is a tutorial video but his steps are very confusing to me. I personally know bayes theorem and have already studied probability and got good marks in it(It may not be a metric for being quality in it given that it is nepal we are talking about.)
https://courses.engr.illinois.edu/ece448/sp2020/slides/lec15.pdf
here is the slide I'm referring to. The answer seems 0.72 or 0.28 according to video.

My attempt-:
I try finding P(B/(J,M)) but I don't get a way to find it. Burglary is independent of anything else. IDK how to find this value.
 
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Try breaking it into parts, eg:

P(B | J & M) = P(B | A) x P(A | J & M)
Then use Bayes' Theorem to work out P(B | A) and P(A | J & M).

Note that the question gives you P(A | B & E), P(A | B & ~E), P(~B & E), P(~B & ~E)
[left-side table, ~ means NOT]
plus P(B), P(E) and since you said they're independent, you have P(B & E) = P(B)P(E)
[top two values]
plus P(J | A), P(J | ~A), P(M | A), P(M | ~A)
[bottom of slide]

You are going to need the value for P(J & M) which means you need to know whether J and M are independent ( in which case we'll have P(J & M) = P(J) P(M) ). Do they tell you that?

You are also going to need the value for P(J & M | A) which means you need to know whether J|A and M|A are independent ( in which case we'll have P(J & M | A) = P(J | A) P(M | A) ). Do they tell you that?
 
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andrewkirk said:
Try breaking it into parts, eg:

P(B | J & M) = P(B | A) x P(A | J & M)
Then use Bayes' Theorem to work out P(B | A) and P(A | J & M).

Note that the question gives you P(A | B & E), P(A | B & ~E), P(~B & E), P(~B & ~E)
[left-side table, ~ means NOT]
plus P(B), P(E) and since you said they're independent, you have P(B & E) = P(B)P(E)
[top two values]
plus P(J | A), P(J | ~A), P(M | A), P(M | ~A)
[bottom of slide]
..
andrewkirk said:
You are going to need the value for P(J & M) which means you need to know whether J and M are independent ( in which case we'll have P(J & M) = P(J) P(M) ). Do they tell you that?
Yes J and M are independent to each other.
andrewkirk said:
You are also going to need the value for P(J & M | A) which means you need to know whether J|A and M|A are independent ( in which case we'll have P(J & M | A) = P(J | A) P(M | A) ). Do they tell you that?
J is dependent on A and so is M.
 
shivajikobardan said:
J is dependent on A and so is M.
Yes we know that, but that's not enough, as it still leaves different possibilities. We need to know P(J | M&A) and P(M | J & A).
Consider the following two cases:

Case 1:
A & M =>J (If the alarm goes off and Mary calls then John always calls too)
P(J | M & A) = 1
So P(J & M | A) = P(J&M&A) / P(A) = P(J | M&A) P(M&A) /P(A) = P(M&A) / P(A) = P(M|A)P(A)/P(A) = P(M|A) = 0.7

Case 2:
A & ~M => J (If alarm goes off and Mary doesn't call then John does call)
P(J | A & ~M) = 1

So P(J & ~M & A) = P(J | A & ~M) P(A & ~M) = P(J | A & ~M) P(~M | A) P(A) = 1 x (1 - 0.7) P(A) = 0.3 P(A)
So P(J & M & A) = P(J & A) - P(J & ~M & A) = P(J | A) P(A) - 0.3P(A) = 0.95 P(A) - 0.3 P(A) = 0.65 P(A)
So P(J & M | A) = 0.65 P(A) / P(A) = 0.65.

So these different dependencies give us different results.

If they don't give you any information about those dependencies, I expect they intended - but forgot to say - that the events M | A and J | A are independent, so that P(J & M | A) = P(J | A) P(M | A) = 0.95 x 0.7 = 0.665. Note how that is between the values from the above two cases.
 

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