What is the rate of change of angle in a 90 degree triangle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the rate of change of an angle in a 90-degree triangle, specifically through the application of trigonometric relationships and implicit differentiation. Participants explore different methods to derive the rate of change, addressing both theoretical and mathematical aspects of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the cosine function and the Pythagorean theorem to derive the angle's rate of change, leading to a calculated value of ds/dt = 1.73205 m/s and dØ/dt = -0.055 m/s, expressing doubt about the correctness of these values.
  • Another participant suggests starting with a sketch and using the cotangent function to derive an expression for the angle in terms of x and a constant length, leading to an implicit differentiation that results in a formula for dØ/dt.
  • A later reply reiterates the cotangent approach and provides a specific calculation for dØ/dt, resulting in -1/100 rad/minute, while questioning the units of the final answer.
  • One participant confirms that the angle is decreasing at a rate of 1/100 rad/s, providing a dimensional analysis to support the units of the derived expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of their calculations and the appropriate units for the rate of change of the angle. There is no consensus on the final values or the method used to arrive at them, indicating ongoing uncertainty and debate.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express doubt regarding their calculations and the units used, highlighting potential limitations in their assumptions and the need for clarity in the definitions of variables involved.

ardentmed
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Hey guys,

I need some more help for this problem set I've been working on. I'm doubting some of my answers and I'd appreciate some help.

This is only for question 1. Ignore 2.
Question:
08b1167bae0c33982682_19.jpg


For the first one, drawing out the question clearly tells us that we are working with a 90 degree triangle. Thus, we can calculate the angle via cosØ and the Pythagorean formula.

The derivative thereof is:

-sinØ dØ/dt = [dx/dt (s) - ds/dt (x)] / s^2

We can substitute for values and solve for ds/dt, which leads to:

ds/dt = 1.73205 m/s (is this supposed to be an exact value?


Thus, dØ/dt can be calculated via substitution of the newly calculated ds/dt value. From isolation, we get:

dØ/dt = -0.055 m/s (or decreasing at a rate of 0.055 m/s. I'm highly doubtful of my response to this question.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Beginning with a sketch is a very good first step:

View attachment 2841

As we can see, we may write:

$$\cot(\theta)=\frac{x}{50}$$

Now, if we implicitly differentiate with respect to time $t$, we get:

$$-\csc^2(\theta)\d{\theta}{t}=\frac{1}{50}\d{x}{t}$$

Now, since:

$$\csc(\theta)=\frac{L}{50}$$

we may write:

$$\d{\theta}{t}=-\frac{50}{L^2}\d{x}{t}$$

Now, what do you get when you plug in the given values for $$L,\,\d{x}{t}$$?
 

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MarkFL said:
Beginning with a sketch is a very good first step:

View attachment 2841

As we can see, we may write:

$$\cot(\theta)=\frac{x}{50}$$

Now, if we implicitly differentiate with respect to time $t$, we get:

$$-\csc^2(\theta)\d{\theta}{t}=\frac{1}{50}\d{x}{t}$$

Now, since:

$$\csc(\theta)=\frac{L}{50}$$

we may write:

$$\d{\theta}{t}=-\frac{50}{L^2}\d{x}{t}$$

Now, what do you get when you plug in the given values for $$L,\,\d{x}{t}$$?

Plugging in the aforementioned values results in the following expression:

$\d{\theta}{t}$ = (-50*2)/(100^2)
$\d{\theta}{t}$ = -1/100 rad/minute (albeit I'm doubting the units for the final answer. Is it m/s, since the other units were also m/s? I just assumed rad/minute due to commonly seeing it used in related rates questions with angles.)

Thanks again.
 
Yes, the angle is decreasing at a rate of 1/100 rad/s at that point in time. If you look at the right side of:

$$\d{\theta}{t}=-\frac{50}{L^2}\d{x}{t}$$

Performing a dimensional analysis, we see the units are:

$$\frac{\text{m}}{\text{m}^2}\cdot\frac{\text{m}}{\text{s}}=\frac{1}{\text{s}}$$

Because we measure angles in radians, and being the ratio of two lengths, are dimensionless, so we take the rate of change here to be radians per second.
 

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