What is the relationship between the strong force and E=mc2?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between the strong force and the equation E=mc², touching on theoretical and experimental aspects of the strong interaction, the implications of special relativity, and the nature of quarks. It includes both conceptual and technical elements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the strength of the strong interaction between quarks is comparable to the weight of a 10-tonne truck, suggesting a relationship between force, distance, work, energy, and mass that may relate to E=mc².
  • Another participant asserts that much is known experimentally about the strong force, challenging the idea that our understanding is solely theoretical.
  • A different participant disagrees with the initial claims, stating that while there is a relationship between force and energy, it does not directly equate to E=mc², and emphasizes that the relationship arises from relativistic theory.
  • This participant also mentions that quarks have not been observed in isolation due to the strong attractive force between them, indicating uncertainty about what has been experimentally measured regarding the strong force.
  • Further, they argue that the strong force does not diminish with distance, contrasting it with the electromagnetic force, which does.
  • Another participant introduces a calculation related to the force required to extract a quark from a hadron, referencing Regge theory and suggesting that significant force is needed, which they find remarkable.
  • They also mention that recent formalism indicates potentially weaker forces in the transverse direction, referencing a specific arXiv paper.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on several points, particularly regarding the nature of the relationship between the strong force and E=mc², the extent of experimental knowledge about the strong force, and the implications of special relativity. Multiple competing views remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the strong force, including the dependence on theoretical frameworks and the challenges in isolating quarks for measurement. There is also mention of the complexity of integrating relativity with particle physics.

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I have read that the strength of the strong interaction between two quarks is roughly the same as the weight of a 10 tonne truck (i.e. 105 N).

There is a relationship between Force and distance and work and energy and mass (and I am aware of the extent to which Newtonian mechanics is perturbed by special relativity in all this), and it seems to me, looking at the sums, that my introductory sentence above may just be the logical/mathematical restatement of ‘E=mc2’.

However, E=mc2 – and the whole of special relativity in fact - seems to me to just be a brilliant restatement of the statement “the speed of light is a constant” (or “there is no such thing as the ether”).

An (admittedly not comprehensive) Internet search seems to indicate that much of the information about the strong force is inferred theoretically rather than directly measured. Is our whole theory about the strong force and its magnitude resting just on the foundations of Maxwell and Michelson and Morley, and their findings about the significance, and invariance, of the speed of light?
 
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very much is known experimentally about the strong force
 
Sorry to disappoint, but I'd disagree with each of your comments above.

There is a relationship between Force and distance and work and energy and mass (and I am aware of the extent to which Newtonian mechanics is perturbed by special relativity in all this), and it seems to me, looking at the sums, that my introductory sentence above may just be the logical/mathematical restatement of ‘E=mc2’.

No.


However, E=mc2 – and the whole of special relativity in fact - seems to me to just be a brilliant restatement of the statement “the speed of light is a constant” (or “there is no such thing as the ether”).

No. but the relationship does flow from relatvititic theory of which light is a key part.

An (admittedly not comprehensive) Internet search seems to indicate that much of the information about the strong force is inferred theoretically rather than directly measured. Is our whole theory about the strong force and its magnitude resting just on the foundations of Maxwell and Michelson and Morley, and their findings about the significance, and invariance, of the speed of light?

Maybe to the first part; I seem to recall reading quarks have not been observed in isolation due to the huge attractive force between them..but I do not know exactly what has been experimentally measured...

but No to the second. We get a lot of "information" from measurement and theory combined, much less from either in isolation without the other. The electromagnetic force falls off with distance, not so the sterong force.
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Wikipedia says :

The strong force acting between quarks... remains at a strength of about 100,000 Newtons,[citation needed] no matter what distance separates the quarks after this limiting distance is reached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_force


and in any event derives from quantum chromodynaics (QCD) and theWeinberg-Salaam model...

If anything relativity is not about forces but about geometry. The standard model incorporates some aspects of relativity, but in fact the heart of relativity, gravity, remains outside the standard model of particle physics...

There are some great threads here on the standard model and the mathematical aspects of it that have been "unified", at least loosly speaking. You can get an idea of how strong,weak,and electromagnetic forces are related from the unifying mathematical theory...
 
You need to convert 1 GeV per fermi in a force into get about 16 tons (160 kN). This is the "string tension" one gets out of Regge theory. So yes, roughly you need to attach the weight of two horses to pull out a quark from a hadron. That's pretty amazing.

More recent formalism suggest possibly 50 times weaker forces in the transverse direction
http://arxiv.org/abs/0810.3589
 

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