What is the role of life in the universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of life in the universe, exploring its origins, implications for the universe's structure, and the potential fine-tuning of cosmic conditions for life. Participants examine theoretical perspectives, including cosmic natural selection and entropy, while considering both the historical timeline of life and its relationship with the universe's expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that life began relatively quickly after the formation of Earth, potentially indicating that hospitable conditions are not strictly necessary for life's emergence.
  • Others argue that the emergence of complex structures, including life, coincides with the universe's expansion, raising questions about the relationship between life and cosmic development.
  • There is a proposal that life may serve as a counterbalance to entropy in the universe, with the notion that improbable events carry more information and significance.
  • One participant references Freeman Dyson's idea that life and intelligence might influence the universe, suggesting a law of nature where consciousness interacts with matter.
  • Another participant challenges the timeline of life’s emergence, noting that evidence suggests life remained single-celled for a significant period before developing multicellular forms.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of cosmic natural selection and whether the universe is fine-tuned for life or primarily for phenomena like black holes.
  • Questions are posed regarding the conservation of information in the universe and how it relates to observable phenomena and the nature of existence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the timeline of life’s emergence, the implications of cosmic structures, and the nature of the universe's fine-tuning. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on these complex topics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the timeline of life and the conditions necessary for its emergence. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of quantum mechanics and entropy, which are not universally agreed upon.

  • #61
Garth said:
The ancient philosophers applied this to a void within the receptacle of space and time. Are we not here considering the creation of spacetime itself?

Garth

Nequaquam vacuum is usually translated as "the Void does not exist" and more accurately described by some scholars as "the Void should not exist" but I suspect that a true meaning would be "the Void cannot exist"

the concept can be routed in the transition of the ancient semitic ideas of Ain [Nothing] to Ain Soph [No Limit]- absolute concepts which establish Being and Action prior to the formation of the Universe- first manifest in the sephiroth of kether [which means "beginning" but does not emerge until "after" the matrix of absolutes Ain/Ain Soph yields Ain Soph Aur [Limitless light] ]

essentially the eruption of infinity [Ain Soph Aur] out of a Nothingness that CANNOT exist results in the Existence of Being/Action where worlds can then form-


seeing as how the universe DOES exist- [if it were an illusion- or virtual- it would still exist as an illusion or a simulation] then the only possibilities are that Nothingness is itself is an absurd error of logic by humankind [which is most likely the case] or Nothing has this lack-of-ability to prevent Existence from erupting into Being- and in a way that is the SAME THING- there are no other possibilities-
 
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  • #62
As Nequaquam vacuum is Latin I was routing its meaning back through the Latin and Greek thinkers, to
1. Aristotle who thought it incoherent (the Void cannot exist), but also to the
2. Stoics who posited a limited universe embedded in the Void and the
3. Epicureans who used it to separate bounded objects within the universe.

The modern versions of these points of view would be –

1. the answer to the question, "What lies beyond the universe?" – Ans. no-thing.
2. the answer to the question, "Where did the Big Bang come from?" – Ans. from a random quantum fluctuation in a primordial “Ylem”.
3. the answer to the question, “What lies between physical objects, such as the space between atoms in the thin plasma of the IGM?” – Ans. Vacuum.

Garth
 
  • #63
Entropy said:
Try this experiment. Go up to a very high cliff, stand on the edge and jump off. If you hesitate for some reason then for that reason, you exist.

:smile: :smile: :smile:

I gave some serious thought to your suggested experiment and can't help but laugh at my conclusion. If I went up to a very high cliff and stood on the edge the main reason that I would hesitate to jump off is because I don't like pain!

So I suppose that my reason for existing is that I don't like pain. :biggrin:

Actually I'm not afraid of death at all if I can die painlessly. I wouldn't hesitative to take a nice little lethal injection that would merely end my existence painlessly (at least not for the same reason that I would hesitate to jump off a cliff).

My hesitation for dying painlessly would be more subtle. The reason for my hesitation in that case would probably be because I'm still having fun studying physics and math so I'd rather stick around and have more fun than cease to exist.

So I suppose that my main reason for living is to study physics and math. Pretty sad huh? Actually enjoy petting the dog once in a while too so I suppose that there are other bonuses to life as well. :approve:
 

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