What is the significance of complex conjugates in Bra-ket notation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of complex conjugates in Bra-ket notation, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the mathematical foundations of kets and bras, their representations, and the implications of using complex numbers in this framework.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the concept of bras in Bra-ket notation, questioning the role of complex conjugates and their origin.
  • Another participant explains that the dual space and the Riesz representation theorem provide a foundation for understanding bras as linear functionals associated with kets.
  • Some participants criticize the complexity of the explanations provided, suggesting they may not be accessible to beginners and requesting simpler language.
  • A participant clarifies that in quantum mechanics, bras are conjugate-transposes of kets due to the use of complex vector spaces, which is necessary for defining a positive-definite norm.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of the forum for different levels of questions, with some arguing that undergraduate-level questions are acceptable while others suggest it is more suited for graduate-level inquiries.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of the explanations and the intended audience for the forum. There is no consensus on the best way to communicate the concepts, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the accessibility of the information provided.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the mathematical statements and concepts may depend on the specific context of the lecture or the level of understanding of the original poster, indicating potential limitations in the explanations given.

iScience
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so I'm fine with the kets, e.g, |a>.. but i don't understand what the bras are. the kets are basically just a column vector right? ie the components (with the direction) of the vector being described.
but what is the bra?

this was given to us in class:
<a|=a1<e1|+a2<e2|= (a1* a2*)

(where e1 and e2 are the unit basis vectors)

but why the complex conjugates? where'd they come from?

and the professor gave us this in class:

<a|b>=a1*b1<e1|e1>+a1*b2<e1|e2>+a2*b1<e2|e1>+a2*b2<e2|e2>

i understand the pattern but i am still at a loss as to where this all came from
 
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Given a vector space ##V## over the desired field there exists a dual space ##V^{*}## consisting of all linear functionals mapping elements of ##V## into said field. Furthermore given an inner product ##< , >## on ##V## there exists a bijection between ##V## and ##V^{*}## such that for any ##v\in V##, there exists a unique ##f \in V^{*}## such that ##f(w) = <v, w>## for all ##w\in V##, which is normally called the Riesz representation theorem. As a result, given any ##v\in V## we can denote it by ##|v\rangle## (called a "ket vector") and since the Riesz representation theorem says there exists a unique ##f\in V^{*}## associated with ##v## such that ##f(w) = <v,w>##, we can simply denote ##f## by ##\langle v|## (called a "bra vector") and denote ##f(w)## by ##\langle v|w\rangle## so that ##\langle v|w\rangle= <v,w>##. So the Riesz representation theorem is the reason why bra-ket notation can be used.
 
Since this poster is probably just starting with quantum mechanics, do you actually think that any of that is going to be useful to him/her? Looks to me like you are showing off instead of helping the poster. I would like to see some other responses to the original post, something more digestible for a beginner. Maybe I'm wrong and your post cleared it up perfectly to the original poster (It sure didn't for me)... Often people asking for help around here get replies that are correct, but not useful at all.
 
Yah.. ModusPwnd is correct.. the answer you gave WannabeNewton, is something i could have easily found on wikipedia or on some other web site, but, although embaressing, i still do not understand mathematical statements like the one you just gave. can you put it in terms of easer.. lingo/format?
 
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iScience,

Consider a simple system whose states can be spanned by a finite number of basis states. (I.e., any state can be expressed as a linear combination of those basis states.) This is modeled in basic QM by an inner product space (i.e., vector space with an inner product defined thereon). IF it were a real vector space, then the bras would simply be the transposes of the column vectors. But in QM, we use complex vector spaces in general, so the bras are conjugate-transposes of the column vectors. This corresponds to the 1st equation you wrote in your original post.

This choice is made so that the inner product on the space, can be used to define a positive-definite norm. E.g., ##\def\<{\langle} \def\>{\rangle}##
$$
\|a\| ~:=~ \<a|a\> ~=~ \pmatrix{a_1^* & a_2^*} \pmatrix{a_1 \\ a_2} ~=~ |a_1|^2 + |a_2|^2
~\ge~ 0~.
$$I can't say much more than that without knowing more of the context of your lecture. (I'm guessing it's in the context of a system with 2 independent states.)

Btw, WBN's reply is also applicable to the infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces that are quite common in QM.
 
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ModusPwnd said:
Since this poster is probably just starting with quantum mechanics, do you actually think that any of that is going to be useful to him/her? Looks to me like you are showing off instead of helping the poster.
It helps to keep in mind that this forum is really intended for graduate-level questions. Homework and textbook-level questions should probably go in the homework forum.
 
strangerep said:
this forum is really intended for graduate-level questions.

No, it's not. Undergraduate-level conceptual questions are fine here. Even high-school level, although you don't get too many of those in QM!

The homework forums are for getting help with working through specific exercises, e.g. from textbooks.
 
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