What is the sum of multiple probabilities

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probabilities associated with multiple independent assets, each having a 10% chance of failure. Participants explore the probability of at least one asset failing, the probability of none failing, and the implications of these calculations. The conversation includes both conceptual understanding and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the probability of one asset failing in a group of ten, initially suggesting it might still be 10%.
  • Another participant proposes starting with the probability that none will fail, calculating it as q=0.9^10, leading to the conclusion that the probability of at least one failing is p=1-q.
  • Some participants express confusion about how the combined probability of multiple assets can yield a lower risk than the individual probabilities, describing it as "magic."
  • There is a suggestion that the probability of exactly one asset failing requires summing the probabilities of various disjoint scenarios where one specific asset fails while the others do not.
  • One participant mentions the "And Rule," explaining that the probability of independent events occurring together is less than or equal to the probability of either event occurring alone.
  • Another participant confirms calculations, stating that the chance of at least one asset failing is approximately 65.1322%, while the chance of all failing is extremely low (1E-10).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the calculations and implications of the probabilities. While some calculations are confirmed, there is no consensus on the interpretation of the results, particularly regarding the probability of one asset failing versus multiple assets.

Contextual Notes

Some participants struggle with the underlying assumptions of independence and the implications of summing probabilities in different scenarios. There are also unresolved questions about how to interpret the results in practical terms.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in probability theory, particularly in understanding the behavior of independent events and how to calculate combined probabilities in practical scenarios.

Observeraren
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
If I have an asset that has a 10% chance to fail and I have ten of these assets in a basket, then what is the chance that one will fail in this basket? 10%?:partytime: What is the chance of 10 failing? 0,01%?
Please also explain in some laymans terms. I am a total noob when it comes to mathematics.
This forum has helped me a lot, thanks guys!:bow:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It is easier to start with the question: what is the probability that none will fail? Assuming the failures of these assets are independent of each other, then the probability that none will fail is [tex]q=0.9^{10}[/tex]. The probability that at least one will fail =p=1-q.
Using independence again, the probability that all will fail is [tex]0.1^{10}[/tex]. I'll leave the arithmetic for you.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Observeraren
mathman said:
It is easier to start with the question: what is the probability that none will fail? Assuming the failures of these assets are independent of each other, then the probability that none will fail is [tex]q=0.9^{10}[/tex]. The probability that at least one will fail =p=1-q.
Using independence again, the probability that all will fail is [tex]0.1^{10}[/tex]. I'll leave the arithmetic for you.

Taking into consideration that all these assets are independent from each other, is the probability that two will fail (p=1-q)/2?

So the probability that none will fail is q=0.3486784401%? and the probability that at least one will fail is p=0,65132156%?
This is magic to me I am not able to comprehend how this is possible that 10 of these assets with a 10% risk when summed up have a smaller risk than when alone.:woot::woot:

Is there something I am not getting now? The probability that one will fail is not px100?

Wow. :woot:
 
Last edited:
Having 10 assets failing simultaneously has a probability that is lower than having 1 asset failing (which makes sense, since intuitively it is less likely to happen). The general formula for having ##1\leq n \leq 10## assets fail simultaneously is ##p^n## since they are independent, where ##p## is the probability of failing.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Observeraren
S_David said:
Having 10 assets failing simultaneously has a probability that is lower than having 1 asset failing (which makes sense, since intuitively it is less likely to happen). The general formula for having ##1\leq n \leq 10## assets fail simultaneously is ##p^n## since they are independent, where ##p## is the probability of failing.

How nice of you to help me. p" role="presentation">p being the probability of one failing in this group as mathman posted above; p=1-q?

This is such magic to me, how can the fail probability of 1/10 of these assets be less than 10%:woot::woot:? p=1-q. Or does p=.65... mean that there is a 65% probability that one will fail? that seems logical.

I have come to the conclusion that my latter statement is the case. 1.00 being 100%.
probabiliies are still magic tho.
wow.
 
Last edited:
Observeraren said:
If I have an asset that has a 10% chance to fail and I have ten of these assets in a basket, then what is the chance that one will fail in this basket? 10%?
Maybe. Do you mean given a specific one, that it will fail? Or do you mean that out of all ten exactly one will fail? If you mean the latter, then 10% is wrong.

For exactly one to fail out of all ten, calculate the sum of #1 fail and #2-#10 pass + #2 fail and #1,#3-#10 pass + ... + #10 fail and #1-#9 pass. Since all these cases are disjoint you can simply add the probabilities.
 
Observeraren said:
How nice of you to help me. p" role="presentation">p being the probability of one failing in this group as mathman posted above; p=1-q?

This is such magic to me, how can the fail probability of 1/10 of these assets be less than 10%:woot::woot:? p=1-q. Or does p=.65... mean that there is a 65% probability that one will fail? that seems logical.

.
Note that in one case you compute the probability of _either_ asset1, asset2,..., asset10 failing and not just asseti failing ; I=1,2,..,10.
 
The And Rule: If events A and B are independent, then P(A and B) = P(A)⋅P(B).

Since P(A) and P(B) are probabilities we have 0 ≤ P(A), P(B) ≤ 1 ⇒ P(A and B) = P(A)⋅P(B) ≤ P(A), P(B) because when u multiply two numbers between 0 and 1 the result is always smaller than either number you started with. So the probability of having two independent events happen together is always less than or equal to the probability of either event on it's own.

Hope that helps.
 
Observeraren said:
How nice of you to help me. p" role="presentation">p being the probability of one failing in this group as mathman posted above; p=1-q?

This is such magic to me, how can the fail probability of 1/10 of these assets be less than 10%:woot::woot:? p=1-q. Or does p=.65... mean that there is a 65% probability that one will fail? that seems logical.

I have come to the conclusion that my latter statement is the case. 1.00 being 100%.
probabiliies are still magic tho.
wow.
That is correct --
others have already pointed out some fundamentals --
as you have concluded for this example:
0.9^10 is 0.348678, and 100-34.8678 puts the chance of at least one asset failing at 65.1322%
The chance that all 10 will fail is 0.1^10, or 1E-10,
so the chance that at least one will not fail is 1 - 1E-10, which is 99.99999999%
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
9K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
6K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K