What keeps most galactic stars from falling into the centeral black hole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of stars in galaxies, particularly focusing on the factors that prevent them from falling into central black holes. Participants explore concepts from classical mechanics, such as Kepler's laws and angular momentum, as well as the implications of black hole mass distribution and Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND). The conversation touches on both theoretical and observational aspects of galactic dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that conservation of angular momentum and Newtonian gravity are key factors keeping stars from falling into black holes.
  • Others emphasize that the gravitational effects of a black hole are not necessarily greater than those of the same mass spread out, suggesting that proximity is crucial for significant gravitational influence.
  • A participant questions the application of Kepler's laws to stars in galaxies, arguing that these laws do not apply when considering a distributed mass of stars.
  • There is mention of the Andromeda galaxy potentially having two central black holes, with differing opinions on the current leading explanations for its structure.
  • Some participants discuss the naming conventions of the Milky Way's central black hole, Sagittarius A*, and clarify misunderstandings regarding its designation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of Kepler's laws to stellar orbits in galaxies, the nature of black hole gravitational effects, and the structure of the Andromeda galaxy. There is no consensus on these points, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of current understanding regarding the dynamics of stars in galaxies, including unresolved questions about the nature of black holes and the application of classical laws of motion in complex gravitational fields.

KurtLudwig
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I believe that it is mainly conservation of angular momentum that keeps galactic stars apart and from rapidly falling into a central black hole.
We know from Kepler's Second Law, that a line from a planet to the Sun sweeps an equal area in equal time. The planet's velocity increases when it orbits closer to the Sun. The area swept is a triangle 1/2 r v sin (theta) = constant, asserted by Kepler, based on observations by Tycho Brahe. (From a college physics text book by Ohanian.)

Similarly, stars in the Milky Way galaxy orbit the Andromeda black hole. Conservation of angular momentum keeps most stars from falling in. Also, Newtonian gravity rapidly decreases with distance form the central black hole.

What keeps the stars in a star cluster apart? I believe that the relative motions of the stars and their relative angular momenta keep the stars apart.

How is Modified Newtonian Dynamics involved in keeping stars together and from wandering off into space?
 
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I agree. But it is important to realize that the significance of a black hole is not so much tremendous gravitational effects as it is having all that mass compressed into a tiny space. A black hole has no greater gravitational effect then the same amount of mass spread out would have. There can be small black holes that do not have significant gravitational effects unless you get very close. In fact, many black holes at the center of galaxies are a small percentage of the total mass of their galaxy.
 
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KurtLudwig said:
Similarly, stars in the Milky Way galaxy orbit the Andromeda black hole.
Uh, Sagittarius A is going to be sorry to hear about this change.
 
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phinds said:
Uh, Sagittarius A is going to be sorry to hear about this change.
Technically Sagittarius A* if we are talking the Milky Way black hole.
(Sagittarius A is a larger grouping)
 
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Orodruin said:
Technically Sagittarius A* if we are talking the Milky Way black hole.
(Sagittarius A is a larger grouping)
Huh. I didn't realize that. I've always heard it called Sag-A-Star but thought I'd use the formal name (incorrectly it seems). Thanks for the correction.
 
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It's called Sagittarius A Star because it's not a star. Go figure.
 
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Since we're in all-out quibble mode - stars in galaxies don't follow Kepler's Law. That applies to the situation where the central mass is all there is, and an elliptical orbit among stars that make up a distributed mass is not that.

We've quibbled about the Andromeda black hole. There might (or might not) be two. M31 has an odd double-nucleus structure, which may indicate two central black holes today, two central black holes in the past, or something else. I think "something else" is today's leading candidate explanation, but consensus has shifted in the past and might continue to do so. It's behavior changes on human timescales, so we may get some new evidence that clarifies things some time.
 
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