What Kind of Tensor Product is v=S:∇I?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the tensor product expressed as v=S:∇I in the context of fluid dynamics. Participants are exploring the nature of this product, particularly focusing on its mathematical representation and implications in tensor notation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the symbol ":" typically denotes the Frobenius inner product but suggests that in this case, it does not represent a classical Frobenius product due to the involvement of a rank 3 tensor.
  • Another participant proposes that the operation could be a double contraction, which would transform a rank 5 tensor into a vector, providing an index notation example: v_i = S_{ijk} ∂I_k/∂x_j.
  • A different participant expresses uncertainty about the number of indices for S and I, suggesting that they might only have two indices, which could affect the interpretation of the product.
  • One participant suggests an alternative formulation, indicating a possible interpretation as (S ⋅ ∇) ⋅ I, and provides a component form: v_k = S_{ij} ∂I_{ik}/∂x_j.
  • Another participant agrees with the previous suggestion but questions the summation indices, asking why summation would occur over i and j instead of i and k.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the tensor product and the appropriate indices for summation, indicating that multiple competing interpretations remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the definitions of the tensors involved and the specific operations being performed, which may depend on the context of fluid dynamics and the conventions used in the relevant literature.

jure
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Hi,
I'm reading a book about fluid dynamics and I found some strange product between tensors. It's written like this: v=S:∇I , where S and I are matrices and v is a vector. Symbol : usually denotes Frobenius inner product. In this case we have a product of a matrix with a tensor of rank 3 and the result is vector - so it's not classical Frobenius product.
I would like to know what kind of product this is (especially useful would be index notation).
Thanks for help.
 
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jure said:
Hi,
I'm reading a book about fluid dynamics and I found some strange product between tensors. It's written like this: v=S:∇I , where S and I are matrices and v is a vector. Symbol : usually denotes Frobenius inner product. In this case we have a product of a matrix with a tensor of rank 3 and the result is vector - so it's not classical Frobenius product.
I would like to know what kind of product this is (especially useful would be index notation).
Thanks for help.

I would guess a double contraction, which would turn a rank 5 tensor into a vector:[tex] v_i = S_{ijk} \frac{\partial I_k}{\partial x_j}[/tex]
 
pasmith said:
I would guess a double contraction, which would turn a rank 5 tensor into a vector:[tex] v_i = S_{ijk} \frac{\partial I_k}{\partial x_j}[/tex]

I initially guessed something like this too, but then thought that

jure said:
S and I are matrices and v is a vector

might indicate that S only has two indices.
 
Maybe something like ##\left( S \cdot \nabla \right) \cdot I## with component form

$$v_k = S_{ij} \frac{\partial I_{ik}}{\partial x_j}?$$
 
George Jones said:
Maybe something like ##\left( S \cdot \nabla \right) \cdot I## with component form

$$v_k = S_{ij} \frac{\partial I_{ik}}{\partial x_j}?$$

Yes, something like this. I and S only have 2 indices. How do you know over which indices to sum? Why wouldn't you sum over i and k instead of i and j?
 

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