What part of the atom creates light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms by which atoms produce light, exploring the atomic processes involved, the role of electron transitions, and the relationship between classical and quantum mechanical descriptions of electromagnetic radiation. Participants express curiosity about the underlying principles and seek clarity on the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks which part of the atom is responsible for creating light and what actions must occur to produce it, indicating a basic understanding of electromagnetic wavelengths.
  • Another participant questions the original poster's understanding of electron orbitals and the classical production of electromagnetic waves.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about orbital shapes and speculates that electromagnetic waves may be produced by the interaction between electrons and photons, questioning why hydrogen emits light when heated but not when cool.
  • One response suggests that light is produced when an electron transitions from a higher energy state to a lower energy state, emitting a photon, and provides a formula for the frequency of the emitted photon.
  • Another participant adds that multiple photons are emitted in a stream, traveling in a wave-like pattern from the electron.
  • Some participants propose starting the discussion with antennas rather than atoms, suggesting that a classical picture may be easier to understand.
  • There is a discussion about the oscillating charge cloud model of an atom as a tiny antenna emitting radiation, and the complexities of visualizing quantum mechanical interactions with the electromagnetic field.
  • One participant questions the classification of the oscillating charge cloud model as classical, suggesting it may also be represented in quantum mechanics through wavefunctions and their associated properties.
  • Another participant acknowledges the difficulty in visualizing quantum interactions and the challenges in reconciling classical and quantum descriptions of light emission.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the mechanisms of light production at the atomic level. There are competing views on whether to approach the topic from a classical or quantum perspective, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best framework for understanding these processes.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about specific concepts such as electron orbitals and the conditions under which atoms emit light. There is also a lack of consensus on the appropriate models to use when discussing atomic light emission.

azzkika
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What part of the atom creates light??

what part of the atom is responsible for making light, and what particular action must it undergo in order to make light.

i have a basic understanding of electromagnetic wavelengths, and am curious as to how they are produced, and what occurs at the atomic level in order to produce and vary the wavelength/frequency
 
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Do you have any understanding of the shapes of electron orbitals? Do you know what produces EM waves on the classical level?
 


cesiumfrog said:
Do you have any understanding of the shapes of electron orbitals? Do you know what produces EM waves on the classical level?


i have no understanding of orbital shapes, i would guess EM waves are produced by the charge between electron and photon, but this is only a guess, and have no idea why hydrogen produces light when super heated in the sun, yet none when a cool gas on earth, or what variances at atomic level vary EM wavelength.
 


Look, I could try to simplify an explanation in layperson terms, but how would that help?

azzkika said:
I ask certain questions and get certain answers, but then i get other answers that suggest the first answer was incomplete or plain wrong.

I suggest you pick up a textbook (on Electrodynamics, or on first year undergraduate physics, if you're not experienced with calculus yet). That is the path that will lead you to understanding the complete answers.
 


azzkika said:
what part of the atom is responsible for making light, and what particular action must it undergo in order to make light.

i have a basic understanding of electromagnetic wavelengths, and am curious as to how they are produced, and what occurs at the atomic level in order to produce and vary the wavelength/frequency
Light is produced when a electron in the atom goes from an excited state of energy E_i to a state of lower energy E_f, emitting a photon of frequency f=(E_i-E_f)/h.
 


Clem just said what I have read to be true also. Could I just add that this is more than one photon emitted or a stream of photons that then travel in a wavelike up and down pattern away from the electron like I just mentioned in the what is light thread?
 


you shouldn't start with atoms. you should start with antennas.
 


granpa said:
you shouldn't start with atoms. you should start with antennas.

Indeed, probably a classical picture is the easiest. You can picture an atom that makes a transition as an oscillating charge cloud, so as a tiny "antenna" that emits radiation with the frequency equal to the oscillation frequency of the charge.
Quantum-mechanically, there's less of a picture: you get an interaction between the atom (state jump) and the em field (photon count +1).
 


vanesch said:
Indeed, probably a classical picture is the easiest. You can picture an atom that makes a transition as an oscillating charge cloud, so as a tiny "antenna" that emits radiation with the frequency equal to the oscillation frequency of the charge.

I wonder why you call this the classical picture. Is this not the quantum mechanical picture as given by the Schroedinger equation?
 
  • #10


Marty said:
I wonder why you call this the classical picture. Is this not the quantum mechanical picture as given by the Schroedinger equation?

Eh, probably too. I guess you can indeed take the superposition of say, a p_x and an s orbital, and that wavefunction, which is not a stationary state, will show an associated expectation value of current which will indeed oscillate and so on, and which will radiate classical EM radiation of *more or less* the right properties. However, I don't think you'd get out the correct "photon properties".
But that's usually not how things are seen on the QM level: one usually considers the interaction of the "atom system" with the "free QED field" through a coupling term. And that's harder to visualise.
 

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