What Resources Best Translate Mathematical Tensors for Physicists?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding resources that effectively translate the mathematical concepts of tensors and forms into a language more accessible to physicists. Participants express interest in understanding covariance and contravariance, as well as the visualization of tensors as n-dimensional arrays, particularly in the context of multilinear algebra and analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks textbooks or websites that bridge the gap between mathematical and physical interpretations of tensors, specifically looking for contextual explanations and proofs related to n-dimensional arrays and covariance/contravariance.
  • Another participant questions the notion of a "proof" regarding tensors as n-dimensional arrays and mentions the differing definitions of covariance and contravariance between mathematicians and physicists.
  • A suggestion is made to refer to Sean M. Carroll's Lecture Notes on General Relativity, which purportedly explains tensors and forms in a manner suitable for physicists, minimizing complex mathematical jargon.
  • One participant recommends Danielson's Vectors and Tensors in Engineering and Physics as a resource that makes tensor mathematics more understandable, although they later express concern that it may be too basic for the original poster's needs.
  • A participant points out the existence of extensive discussions on the forum related to the questions posed, suggesting that there may be additional insights available within the community.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best resources or the definitions of covariance and contravariance, indicating that multiple competing views and interpretations remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There is an acknowledgment of potential conflicts in terminology between mathematicians and physicists regarding covariance and contravariance, which may affect understanding. Additionally, the original poster's request for proofs and contextual explanations highlights the complexity of the subject matter.

dreamtheater
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Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any recommendations on good textbooks (or websites) that help translate the mathematicians' language of tensors (strictly as multilinear maps to the underlying field) and forms (as alternating tensor fields) to the language used by physicists?

For example, I want to know what covariance/contravariance is all about, in the context of multilinear algebra and analysis. Also, I still can't figure out how/why tensors can be visualized as an n-dimensional array of numbers.

I have found many sources that talk about the things above from first principles, but I find these to be un-illuminating. I am looking for a source that places these concepts in context to mathematical theory. (For example, I want to see a proof that shows that tensors can be n-dimensional arrays, and I want to see exactly how covariance/contravariance are related to pullbacks and push-forwards.)

I am a college undergraduate junior, and I have just finished working through Munkres' Analysis on Manifolds.

Thanks.
-maxx
 
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dreamtheater said:
For example, I want to see a proof that shows that tensors can be n-dimensional arrays,

I'm not sure what you mean by "proof." I tried to talk about this in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=874061&postcount=2", but you might have something else in mind.

and I want to see exactly how covariance/contravariance are related to pullbacks and push-forwards.

I need to look at pullbacks and push-forwards again before I can comment, but, for a (by definition sloppy) physicist, a covector (covariant) is either an element of a cotangent space or a cross-section of a cotangent bundle and a vector (contravariant) is either an element of a tangent space or a cross-section of a tangent bundle.

I seem to remember that there is a conflict between the way mathematicians use the terms "covariance" and "contravariance" with respect to mappings, and the way physicists use these terms in differential geometry.

I'll try and look into this, but it might be a few days before I can look at my books.
 
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Lecture Notes on General Relativity, Author: Sean M. Carroll [gr-qc/9712019]

Before it went to print, you could download this text in PDF format-- and still can according to the site! Just google the keyword above.

Chapters 1 through 2, out of some 9 chapters total, will explain tensors and forms (antisymmetric tensors with lower indices), covariance and contravariance and such, to the satisfaction of the physicist, and with a minimum of mathematical jargon that is so often intractable to the rest of us.

It may not have all you are looking for, but I suspect it does,
-prak
 
have you searched this site? there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of words devoted to these questions here.
 
I have been reading Danielson's Vectors and Tensors in Engineering and Physics text voraciously. Definitely makes tensor math more understandable if you are just a lowly engineer (like me).
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=A9fiXTC3cxsC&dq=tensors+and+vectors+in+engineering+and+physics&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=zey3tP1cMK&sig=Y3yDejvtJ-BY1Sc_abemopNXzVY"
I think it is about $25 used. Cheers.

EDIT:
Upon further inspection of your post, this book may be too basic for your needs, but perhaps someone will find it useful.
 
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