What Shapes Can We Visualize in the Fourth Dimension?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter theriddler876
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    4th dimension Dimension
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the fourth dimension, particularly focusing on its spatial aspects and how it can be visualized. Participants explore various interpretations, analogies, and mathematical representations related to four-dimensional objects, as well as the implications of higher dimensions in physics and geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a fourth-dimensional object might appear as a three-dimensional object moving down and then disappearing.
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between the fourth spatial dimension and the time dimension in relativity, recommending the book "Flatland" for insights into visualizing higher dimensions.
  • A participant mentions the terms "ana" and "kata" for the two directions in the fourth dimension, referencing historical interest in visualizing the fourth dimension around 1900.
  • There is a claim that all dimensions include time, but one participant argues that time cannot be a dimension in itself and that time travel is likely only possible in one direction.
  • Another participant discusses string theory, proposing that it involves ten dimensions and describing how points in a two-dimensional world can be arranged with separation, leading to a discussion about dimensions in a string framework.
  • One participant raises questions about extending the concepts of length and angle from three dimensions to four dimensions, suggesting that vector operations can generalize these concepts.
  • A participant presents an analogy comparing physical points in space to pixels on a TV screen, suggesting that points in three-dimensional space might arrange themselves in tetrahedrons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on the nature of the fourth dimension, with no clear consensus on its properties or implications. Disagreements arise regarding the role of time as a dimension and the interpretation of higher dimensions in physics.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference historical texts and concepts that may not be universally accepted or understood, and there are unresolved mathematical steps in the discussions about vector operations and string theory.

  • #61
It's certainly interesting to note that we can accurately state the mass of something we cannot accurately locate. Uncertainty states we cannot accurately predict the location of the electron at any given moment ... so how can we so accurately state it's mass?

My mind's still groggy from New Year - so no doubt you'll elucidate.

As for this apparent electron mass being enough to determine an atom's 'movement' through space (as implied by John), I'm still not convinced. Let's face it, anything with a mass so teeny tiny is pretty much insignificant in gravitational terms ... isn't it?

[b(]
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #62
The uncertainty principle states that you can't accurately measure BOTH of a pair of complementary observables AT THE SAME TIME. For this discussion the two important pairs of complementary observables are momentum and position, and energy and time (say, duration). If you don't care about one of a pair, you can measure the other one as accurately as you want. The thing about mass is that, unlike momentum, energy, or duration, it is persistent. So you can exploit that. The mass of the electron is determined from seeing how it scatters.
 
  • #63
Originally posted by theriddler876
hey, anyone out there care to offer their thoughts on the fourth dimension? as in what would it be, all I have is that a fourth dimensional object would seem like a 3 dimensional object moving down and then disapearing?
Try stronger questions. For instance how many regular (or platonic) bodies can you visualize (or find) in four dimensions? How many in five? How many in three? (In two there are infinite).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K