What state of matter are atomic particles in (protons, neutrons, ect.)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the state of matter of atomic particles, specifically protons, neutrons, and electrons. Participants explore concepts related to virtual particles, the interaction of particles, and the implications of quantum mechanics and quantum chromodynamics (QCD) on these states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that atomic particles could be considered virtual particles, while others firmly state that protons and neutrons are real and not virtual.
  • There is a contention regarding the definition of "state of matter," with some arguing that single particles cannot be in a state of matter without considering their interactions.
  • A hypothesis is presented that protons and electrons might be viewed as forms of electric energy, though this is challenged by others who emphasize their properties such as charge and mass.
  • Questions are raised about the role of quantum chromodynamics (QCD) and the strong force in the existence of virtual particles.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which protons could be part of a Bose-Einstein condensate, noting that protons are fermions and cannot occupy the same quantum state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of atomic particles and their states of matter, with no consensus reached on whether single particles can be classified in terms of states of matter or the implications of virtual particles.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions hinge on the definitions of terms like "virtual particles" and "state of matter," which may not be universally agreed upon. The complexity of quantum mechanics and its implications for particle interactions are acknowledged but not fully resolved.

fishstix95
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What state of matter are atomic particles be in? A friend of mine suggested they might be virtual particles.
 
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fishstix95 said:
What state of matter are atomic particles be in? A friend of mine suggested they might be virtual particles.

Protons and neutrons? They are certainly not virtual, they are very real. Not sure what you mean by state of matter; if you are thinking along the lines of solid, liquid, gas, plasma, bose-einstein condensate, etc, then sorry, but unfortunately these concepts don't really make sense on an atomic scale. They are macroscopic things; even talking about a bose-einstein condensate doesn't make too much sense without a few hundred (thousand?) atoms involved.
 
I don't think single particles can be considered to be in a "state" of matter. It is how they interact with each other that determines what state they are in.
 
Drakkith said:
I don't think single particles can be considered to be in a "state" of matter. It is how they interact with each other that determines what state they are in.

Interesting hypothesis. I was thinking that pehaps the proton or electron is simply electric energy that joins up together. Not sure about the neutron. When I say virtual I mean could protons, neutrons, and electrons pop into existence and many of them act together to make some substance (a solid, liquid, or gas). Thank you both for your imput. Any more information is welcome as I will continue to research this matter.
 
fishstix95 said:
Interesting hypothesis. I was thinking that pehaps the proton or electron is simply electric energy that joins up together. Not sure about the neutron.

Protons, neutrons, and electrons are subatomic particles that have certain properties such as charge, mass, spin, etc. They are not electric energy. Remember, energy is the ability to perform work.

When I say virtual I mean could protons, neutrons, and electrons pop into existence and many of them act together to make some substance (a solid, liquid, or gas). Thank you both for your imput. Any more information is welcome as I will continue to research this matter.

No, virtual particles have a specific definition that is used in science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle
 
Could QCD have any part in this. Could the strong force govern how virtual particles come into existence? Also how could a proton be a bose-einstein codenstate if the particle interacts with others and has mass. I understand that it has spin and charge. I'm still in school so keep it simple.
 
fishstix95 said:
Could QCD have any part in this. Could the strong force govern how virtual particles come into existence?

Instead of asking IF the strong force governs virtual particles, instead ask HOW they come into existence. The answer to that is very complicated and involves an understanding of the way Quantum Field Theory works. I honestly don't even understand it myself.

Also how could a proton be a bose-einstein codenstate if the particle interacts with others and has mass. I understand that it has spin and charge. I'm still in school so keep it simple.

Protons by themselves cannot form bose-einstein condensates, as a proton is a Fermion and cannot occupy the same state. Pairing protons up in the nucleus of an atom can result in the atom itself as a whole acting like a bose-einstein condensate, as the spins of the protons and neutrons can all cancel out to make the atom spin 0 as a whole, making it a boson.
 

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