What Surface Do Null Rays Form in a Modified Minkowski Space?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter adsquestion
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cone Light Light cone
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the geometric interpretation of null rays in a modified Minkowski space with a different metric signature. Participants explore whether the set of null rays forms a cone or another type of surface in this altered space, examining the implications of having two timelike directions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in standard Minkowski space, null rays form a cone and questions how this changes with a modified metric signature of (-,-,+,+).
  • Another participant suggests that to show null rays form a cone in the regular metric, one could analyze the condition ##ds^2=0## and derive the corresponding equations.
  • A participant proposes that in the modified metric, the equation for null rays might be ##x_1^2+x_2^2=x_3^2+x_4^2##, leading to questions about the interpretation of this surface.
  • One reply suggests rewriting the equation as ##x_1^2 = - x_2^2 + x_3^2+x_4^2## to clarify the shape of the surface.
  • Another participant speculates that this could represent a "hyper-hyperboloid," indicating that different choices of ##x_1## yield various hyperboloid shapes.
  • A participant reflects on the visualization of 4-dimensional objects, relating the light cone to emerging circles and suggesting that the modified equation leads to a hyperboloid structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the geometric structure formed by null rays in the modified Minkowski space, with no consensus reached on whether it remains a cone or takes on a different form.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of visualizing 4-dimensional objects and the implications of changing the metric signature, which may affect their interpretations and assumptions about the resulting surfaces.

adsquestion
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
in Minkowksi, the set of all possible null rays from a point defines a cone (light cone).

Now imagine I change the signature of Minkowski from (-,+,+,+) to (-,-,+,+) i.e. a space with two timelike directions and a metric ##ds^2=-dx_1^2-dx_2^2+dx_3^2+dx_4^2##. What kind of surface would the set of null rays form? Is it still a cone? Or is it something else?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
How would you go about showing that the set of possible null-rays forms a cone in the regular metric?
 
Simon Bridge said:
How would you go about showing that the set of possible null-rays forms a cone in the regular metric?
Probably by noting that possible null trajectories have ##ds^2=0## and by differentiating with respect to the affine parameter, we see this corresponds to ##x_1^2=x_2^2+x_3^2+x_4^2## (working with Minkowski at the moment). This can be recognised as the equation of a cone (really a 4d hypercone I suppose).

Now for the case at hand we'd arrive at something like ##x_1^2+x_2^2=x_3^2+x_4^2## and I'm not sure how to interpret this? Would there be an apex in two of the directions?
 
Writing it ##x_1^2 = - x_2^2 + x_3^2+x_4^2## may help.
 
fresh_42 said:
Writing it ##x_1^2 = - x_2^2 + x_3^2+x_4^2## may help.
so it's like a "hyper-hyperboloid"? it looks like each choice of ##x_1## gives a different shaped hyperboloid.
 
I'm not quite sure for my imagination of 4-d objects isn't very well. But to illustrate the light cone you already contracted two space dimensions to one, i.e. the light cone is actually the shape of emerging circles ##x_1^2 =x_2^2+x_3^2## of radius ##x_1 ∈ [0,∞[ ##. Applying the same here would give us ##x_1^2 = - x_2^2 + x_3^2## with ##x_1 ∈ [0,∞[ ##, a hyperboloid. At least this is my understanding of the situation.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K