When a new house is built in a rural area not in a neighborhood

[stickythighs]

Unless you buy 10,000 acres and build your cabin in the middle of it, they will find you. The one thing about rural communities, and the small towns near by, is that the people know pretty much know everything that's going on in what they consider their homeland.
A stranger buys land...secretly builds a cabin, comes to town to buy gas{generator} and supplies, why the whole town would be talking about you in a matter of days.



Oh I had electric put in the beginning of June of this year.

Hypatia,

Please check out my thread styled "How did Ted Kaczynski get away with it?", and tell me why you think Kaczynski got away with living in a cabin with no electricity or running water.

 

[Evo]

Evo,

It was a domed dark tinted shade of glass in the roof.

That is a skylight. As opposed to Bubba sawing a hole in the roof and inserting a pane of glass. :tongue:

 

[rewebster]

Hypatia,

Please check out my thread styled "How did Ted Kaczynski get away with it?", and tell me why you think Kaczynski got away with living in a cabin with no electricity or running water.

during 'that time' , there may have been a lot of hippies, etc. escaping out into the 'country' and, the officials probably didn't do much against him or the others as there were so many

 

[turbo]

I was thinking with all the red tape of building permits, property taxes, electrical lines, etc, a cheaper way to do this would be to just build a cabin out in a rural area and not inform the tax assessor and other authorities that one is building a cabin. It would be cheaper to just let the authorities think that the land is merely undeveloped land and use a generator for the electricity.

You're not going to get away with that, at least not for very long. First off, the tax assessor is aware of any property sales or transfers in his or her jurisdiction, and in rural settings, the officers of the town (in our case we elect selectmen) and employees of the town are going to be living and working near you. They WILL know if you build a place, even if you try to stay off the grid, and when the code-enforcement officers show up to see what you've been doing, the trouble starts. If you don't do things the right way, you may be forced to tear stuff down, apply for permits, rebuild to code, etc, and that can get really expensive really fast. Not only that, town officials are not going to jump through hoops for you to help you get into compliance after you tried to deceive them. They're people, too, and since they get very little pay for working in town government, they are going to take a very dim view of the extra work you make for them by pulling crap like that.

In the last town I lived in, building permit checks and code visits were triggered by requests for electricity hook-ups and properties "off the grid" were assumed to be undeveloped. That little glitch was fixed when it turned out that a woman with a hardware business and her husband built a self-sufficient "green" house and didn't pay taxes for a number of years. They had to pay full assessed-value taxes for three years back, but they got away with the fraud for for over 5 years, and got a couple of years tax-free (on improvements). BTW, the woman's mother was the first selectman and was very well aware of the fraud. That didn't make residents too happy.

 

[BobG]

I had to get a building permit for my dog house, it was 8' by 12' and had a skylight and cross ventilated windows.

No, it was a domed dark tinted window. Not a sheet of glass in the roof. This was a freaking PALACE. Nice screens on the windows, I had it insulated, a raised bed (which it ate) a dog door.

So, the first baseball size hail storm hits, does the dog go into her Palace? No? Does the dog go under the deck? No. Does the dog stand on the deck getting pummeled unconscious and I have to go out and drag the idiot inside and get my glasses broken by a direct hit into my face by a piece of ice as big as my fist? YES.

Next time, just leave him out there. After he's killed by baseball size hail, you can advertise that you're accepting applications.

With an abode like that, I'll apply to be your dog.

 

[Moonbear]

You might just be better off buying a mobile home and parking it on the land if there are no zoning laws against it. It saves a whole lot of building. Then all you really need is the septic and electric hook up (or run off a generator, but given current gas prices, that's probably not much of a bargain) and every so often, have someone come out to refill the propane.

 

[LowlyPion]

One consideration for Missouri is tornadoes.

http://extension.missouri.edu/tornado.htm

A trailer home or a cabin wouldn't be my first choice of places to wait one out.

 

[turbo]

One consideration for Missouri is tornadoes.

http://extension.missouri.edu/tornado.htm

A trailer home or a cabin wouldn't be my first choice of places to wait one out.

A log cabin with a nice concrete cellar wouldn't be bad. I'd rather ride out a twister in my log house than in a stick-built house.

 

[LowlyPion]

A log cabin with a nice concrete cellar wouldn't be bad. I'd rather ride out a twister in my log house than in a stick-built house.

Well now, concrete cellar. Now you're talking. Below ground level concrete walls and maybe a heavy metal door and roof. I saw a show that was accelerating 2x4's to 200 mph and running them through cinder block walls. All I can say is I wouldn't want to be dodging those. Below ground level seems about the only safe recourse.

 

[turbo]

Well now, concrete cellar. Now you're talking. Below ground level concrete walls and maybe a heavy metal door and roof. I saw a show that was accelerating 2x4's to 200 mph and running them through cinder block walls. All I can say is I wouldn't want to be dodging those. Below ground level seems about the only safe recourse.

I live in a VERY sturdy log house with a concrete cellar. I don't use the oil furnace down there and the cellar is unheated, so that it serves as a very nice steady-temperature root cellar. Carrots, squash, turnips, etc keep very well there. The place is not very big, so the cellar probably didn't cost that much to form and pour, and combined with the log construction of the living space, the cellar would be a pretty darned good place to ride out a tornado. Not much chance of a collapse of the main building into the foundation. This is a VERY rugged house.

BTW, the mercury-vapor light on the pole was purchased by the original builder, and it is not owned by the town or the power company. It has a light-sensor to turn it on, with a disconnect switch in my garage. It has been on probably a total of 30 minutes in over 2 years. I like it dark.

 

[stickythighs]

Turbo-1,

How did the powers-that-be find out that the woman with the hardware business was living in this "green" house?

 

[stickythighs]

When the power lines were originally run out from the nearest street with power lines to your house, do you think that the original owner had to pay for it? Or did the utility company pay for it?

 

[stickythighs]

You might just be better off buying a mobile home and parking it on the land if there are no zoning laws against it. It saves a whole lot of building. Then all you really need is the septic and electric hook up (or run off a generator, but given current gas prices, that's probably not much of a bargain) and every so often, have someone come out to refill the propane.

Good point. It might be easier to buy a mobile home.

Why would there be zoning laws against it?

Another thing I would need would be a well (in addition to septic tank and electric hook up).

 

[stickythighs]

BTW, the mercury-vapor light on the pole was purchased by the original builder...

I like physics forums. It's not just a light. It's a mercury-vapor light.

 

[stickythighs]

Are there any states that have no property taxes?

Are there any states in the USA that don't have property taxes? If so, what states?

Or, are there any counties within any states that don't have property taxes? If so, what counties?

 

[Moonbear]

Why would there be zoning laws against it?

Because people don't like the look of a mobile home being parked on the property next door to them. Anywhere you choose to live, you need to check zoning laws. Though, in many rural locations, that's not such an issue. There are a lot of areas around here with no zoning laws at all, because properties are far enough apart that people have the attitude if it's your property, you do with it as you want. Nobody is worried if the grass is mowed or there's a junker car parked somewhere on the property. The closer houses get to one another, the more laws start being created to keep the peace between neighbors. And, sometimes, even when there are zoning laws, one can get a "variance" from the town that allows you to break a specific law with their permission. An example would be if there's a law against mobile homes on the property, but you just want to put one on for a year or two while constructing a more permanent home, and then you'll remove the temporary housing. That can depend somewhat on the generosity of neighbors too. Again, as an example, the law might have been put there if someone was letting every brother, uncle and cousin plunk mobile homes on their property, making the place look like a trailer park and an eyesore to neighbors. But, if you want to put the home out in the middle of the property where none of the neighbors will ever see it, they might give you permission to do so with restrictions on where on the property it can go so you don't have it plunked out at the road edge where it looks bad to the people buying the expensive house down the road a ways.

Really, with all these questions, we can't give you really good answers here. These are all things that vary from state to state, town to town, and even neighborhood to neighborhood. The only way to get good answers is to plan to spend some time at the local municipal building or with a local real estate attorney.

Another thing I would need would be a well (in addition to septic tank and electric hook up).

You'd want to get a good survey of the land to make sure there's water in an accessible location for a well and that the source isn't contaminated.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I couldn't find any, but if you look near the bottom of this list, you will find some cheap ones.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1888.html"

 

[stickythighs]

Because people don't like the look of a mobile home being parked on the property next door to them. Anywhere you choose to live, you need to check zoning laws. Though, in many rural locations, that's not such an issue. There are a lot of areas around here with no zoning laws at all, because properties are far enough apart that people have the attitude if it's your property, you do with it as you want. Nobody is worried if the grass is mowed or there's a junker car parked somewhere on the property. The closer houses get to one another, the more laws start being created to keep the peace between neighbors.

I want to live in an area where there is not another house in a sight. I don't think zoning laws for a mobile home would be an issue.

 

[LowlyPion]

Another thing I would need would be a well (in addition to septic tank and electric hook up).

If there is no well on the property, you will need to drill one of course. You should contact a driller in the local area and get an estimate for any fees, permits and drilling costs to hit the water table. You may also want to investigate which water table, if there are more than one that would be more suitable for your long term needs too. My rough guess is about $6000-$10000 for drilling and pump installation. But you should definitely check into it.

Another consideration is the possibility of putting in a heat pump well, as this could supply you longer term with heating and cooling and reduce propane use considerably.

 

[LowlyPion]

I want to live in an area where there is not another house in a sight. I don't think zoning laws for a mobile home would be an issue.

In rural areas you can expect little zoning.

 

[Redbelly98]

Property taxes are set by towns and cities, not states.

 

[LowlyPion]

I live in a VERY sturdy log house with a concrete cellar. ... This is a VERY rugged house.

You are fortunate then. My approach is to never underestimate the forces of nature however. The F-4 to F-5's can strip the ground bare.

F-5
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mfl/hazards/info/f5torn.jpg

No basement. And now no house.

 

[LowlyPion]

Property taxes are set by towns and cities, not states.

Counties and water districts too.

If there are people to tax, ways will be found.

 

[arildno]

Eeh?
What sort of country do you live in??

Here in Norway, the property tax on house-owners should not exceed 0.7% of the house's market value, and less than 50% of our counties and municipalities derive income from that sort of taxation (with a minimum rate of 0.2% for those municipalities wishing to have that tax)..

 

[stickythighs]

Another consideration is the possibility of putting in a heat pump well, as this could supply you longer term with heating and cooling and reduce propane use considerably.

I've never even heard of a heat pump well, but it sounds interesting. So a heat pump well is a heat pump that is powered by gas from a well? What type of gas would it use?

 

[Redbelly98]

Eeh?
What sort of country do you live in??

Here in Norway, the property tax on house-owners should not exceed 0.7% of the house's market value, and less than 50% of our counties and municipalities derive income from that sort of taxation (with a minimum rate of 0.2% for those municipalities wishing to have that tax)..

I'm in northeastern USA, about 1/2-way between NY City and Philadelphia. Our property tax has fluctuated between 2% and 3% of our home's market value over the past 8 years.

 

[mgb_phys]

I've never even heard of a heat pump well, but it sounds interesting. So a heat pump well is a heat pump that is powered by gas from a well? What type of gas would it use?

No a heat pump is a more efficent heating (or cooling) system.
It uses a series of water fileld pipes which run between the house and underground, it works by pumping heat between the warm ground and conentrating it to heat your house.
Effectively you are stealing some of the suns heat from the warm ground and using it to heat your house (while at the same time slighlty refridgerating the ground), so you use less expensive propane/natural gas/electricity for heating. The pump itself ussually runs on electricity/propane, it's expensive to install but if you are out in the country using expensive propane for heating it will pay for itself.

Some of them can also run in reverse, dumping heat form your house into cold underground water - this is much more efficent than AC.

 

[LowlyPion]

I've never even heard of a heat pump well, but it sounds interesting. So a heat pump well is a heat pump that is powered by gas from a well? What type of gas would it use?

You can read about variations of them here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump