When is it ok to use non-relativistic equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which non-relativistic equations, specifically Newtonian Mechanics, can be used accurately when dealing with speeds less than 10% of the speed of light. Participants explore the implications of a stated margin of error of 1% and how it relates to various speeds and calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that Wikipedia states Newtonian Mechanics remain accurate for speeds below 10% of the speed of light, questioning if all variables and equations hold true under this condition.
  • Another participant suggests that the 1% margin of error implies that calculations using Newtonian and relativistic mechanics will differ by 1% at 10% of the speed of light, and this difference will decrease proportionally with lower speeds.
  • A later reply provides a mathematical example comparing Newtonian and relativistic calculations, indicating that the error margin does not increase linearly with speed but rather exponentially.
  • One participant mentions that even at lower speeds, relativistic equations may be necessary depending on the required precision, citing GPS satellites as an example where small errors are unacceptable.
  • Another participant clarifies that while distances and times may be accurate to within 1%, the overall error can be larger depending on the specifics of the calculations, particularly when subtracting closely valued distances.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the margin of error and its implications for calculations. There is no consensus on the exact conditions under which Newtonian Mechanics can be applied accurately, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of error propagation in calculations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of accuracy and the context of calculations, as well as the potential for larger errors in certain mathematical operations even when individual measurements are within the stated margin of error.

jaketodd
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I saw here on Wikipedia that if the speed you're working with is less than 10% the speed of light, Newtonian Mechanics are still accurate. So, my question is: If you are working with a speed that is less than 10% the speed of light, then will all Newtonian Mechanics variables and equations still hold true? Also, what does it mean on that page by "within a margin of error of 1%"? Does it mean that if you are working with a speed that is 10% the speed of light, then your Newtonian Mechanics calculation will be accurate to within 1% of your figures? What if you are working with a speed that is 5% the speed of light - is the margin of error still 1%? Or, by margin of error, does it mean that Newtonian Mechanics hold if your speed equal to, or below 10% the speed of light +/- 1% of the speed of light?

Thanks,

Jake
 
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I think it means that if you do a calculation say for the momentum of the speeding object in Newtonian terms vs Einsteinian terms they will differ by one percent. If the speed is cut in half the they will differ by half a percent.
 
Thanks jedishrfu.

Anyone else want to confirm this?

Thanks,

Jake
 
A simple example can help. If we are comparing two velocities in the same direction, it's easy to calculate the difference between the values given by Newtonian mechanics and by Special Relativity (velocities shown as fractions of c, the speed of light):

In Newtonian mechanics, the relative velocity of particles moving with velocities v and u (in the same direction) is v - u.

In Special Relativity, the relative velocity is (v - u)/(1 - vu)

The two results differ by a factor of 1 - vu. If v and u are both 10% of c, then the difference between the Newtonian result and the one predicted by SR is 1%, the value given by the Wikipedia article. If v and u are both 5% of c, then the difference between the two results is only 0.25%.

You can see that the error margin doesn't increase linearly with the speeds, but exponentially.
 
Note that depending on desired precision, sometimes even at much lower speeds we need to use relativistic equations. The often-cited GPS satellites is one example, where even an error of a tiny fraction of a percent is unacceptable.
 
jaketodd said:
Does it mean that if you are working with a speed that is 10% the speed of light, then your Newtonian Mechanics calculation will be accurate to within 1% of your figures?
Not necessarily. Your distances and times will be accurate to within 1%, but depending on the details of your calculations that 1% error can cause much larger errors. For example, if you are subtracting two large distances which are very close, then the 1% error in each distance can lead to a much larger error in the difference. This is essentially why relativistic corrections need to be made for GPS as mentioned by Lsos.
 

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