Where are all the female scientists

[wolram]

It seems there are only a few on PFs, so what happened to equality in science?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

It's an interesting subject that I hope women PFers will chime in on. Here are a couple interesting articles I found

Where are the women in America’s greatest scientific laboratories?
http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...how_male_professors_discriminate_against.html

Why Are There Still So Few Women in Science?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/m...few-women-in-science.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[WWGD]

It seems there are only a few on PFs, so what happened to equality in science?

Just curious: do you assume that an unequal or disproportionate representation of a gender in any given area is a sign of inequality/unfairness (and not the result of, say, personal choices), or, that a disproportionate representation is necessarily undesirable ?

 

[Mogarrr]

Just curious: do you assume that an unequal or disproportionate representation of a gender in any given area is a sign of inequality/unfairness (and not the result of, say, personal choices), or, that a disproportionate representation is necessarily undesirable ?

You summed it up nicely.

 

[WWGD]

Do you have any support for this? If so, how do you explain that 90%+ of the prison population is male? Or the advantages for women in family court, where children of divorced parents go predominantly to the mother?
Or how about the fact that 90%+ of deaths on the job are male? And how do you explain that, despite the fact that the mortality rate for prostate cancer is virtually the same as that for breast cancer, you do not hear of any campaigns to end prostate cancer? My personal hypothesis about one of the factors influencing this is that men are (for good or bad) more likely than women to be risk-takers and more likely/willing to stand outside of the norms of society. Evidence for this is the larger variance in the distribution of male traits than of female traits. This may also help explain the greater proportion of men in prison.

 

[SteveL27]

It seems there are only a few on PFs, so what happened to equality in science?

There are very few left-handers too. It's a scandal. Something must be done!

 

[micromass]

This thread is about females in science. Not about males in prison. Not about prostate cancer. Not about left-handers. Please keep on topic.

 

[WWGD]

This thread is about females in science. Not about males in prison. Not about prostate cancer. Not about left-handers. Please keep on topic.

You're right, but I was answering a followup by Mogarr , in which, as I understood, she stated that inequal representation was a sign of a society that was overall unfair to women. I tried to counter this claim.

Still, point taken, sorry, will try to stay on topic.

 

[256bits]

This thread is about females in science. Not about males in prison. Not about prostate cancer. Not about left-handers. Please keep on topic.

I will assume the topic is:
The question is about the socio-economic-political-gender-? pressures that woman face in the science community, and even though these problems are applicable at large in the whole society and professions at large, please llimit discussion to the scientific community.

 

[256bits]

In which case,
from,

It seems there are only a few on PFs ...

Does the male/female membership on PF reflect what is going on in the scientific community?

 

[micromass]

I will assume the topic is:
The question is about the socio-economic-political-gender-? pressures that woman face in the science community, and even though these problems are applicable at large in the whole society and professions at large, please llimit discussion to the scientific community.

Yes. Also allowed are discussions on whether an equal ratio of men/women in science is desirable or not. And what reasons there might be for such an unequal ratio.

 

[AlephZero]

Maybe the reason is political or religious. After all, in a different culture like Iran, 60% of university students are female. And 40% of first degrees are in science and engineering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iran

I heard a first-hand report from somebody at Imperial College London, who had been on a fact-finding visit to evaluate Iran's stem cell research programmes, at the time when Bush had virtually shut that subject down in the USA. He commented that based on what he saw when walking around the labs, about 75% of the Iranian researchers were female.

 

[gfd43tg]

There are many grad students at my university that are female in my department. I don't know about a majority, but certainly present in a good percentage.

Undergrad seems to be more skewed with more males, but still they are there

 

[lisab]

There are many grad students at my university that are female in my department. I don't know about a majority, but certainly present in a good percentage.

Undergrad seems to be more skewed with more males, but still they are there

Interesting - when I was studying physics some 25 years ago, there were far more undergrad females than graduate females, far far more graduate females than female post-docs, and one or two female professors.

 

[Curious3141]

This thread boils down to "Where all the Wise Wimmen at?"

 

[Intrastellar]

Maybe the reason is political or religious. After all, in a different culture like Iran, 60% of university students are female. And 40% of first degrees are in science and engineering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iran

I heard a first-hand report from somebody at Imperial College London, who had been on a fact-finding visit to evaluate Iran's stem cell research programmes, at the time when Bush had virtually shut that subject down in the USA. He commented that based on what he saw when walking around the labs, about 75% of the Iranian researchers were female.

Furthermore,

The latest data, presented in the 2012 Global Gender Gap Report, show that women make up 84 per cent and 76 per cent of college students in Qatar and the UAE, respectively — by far the highest female enrolment figures in the world.

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists/women-power-in-education-1.1306157

For 2013 results: page 65
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GenderGap_Report_2013.pdf
Analogous results.

 

[gfd43tg]

I thought the arabic world was anti-woman?

 

[Intrastellar]

I thought the arabic world was anti-woman?

Did you think we bomb people as well ? Joking.
There are reasons why these kinds of stereotypes are spread, but I hope that these examples will help in establishing that they can be very wrong.

 

[WWGD]

There is a similar trend in the U.S, where women are getting 60%+ of the master's degrees and around 53% of doctorates, and the rate has been going up in 1999-2009 :

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72

But I doubt there will be any complaints from anywhere to address the inequality.

 

[WWGD]

Did you think we bomb people as well ? Joking.
There are reasons why these kinds of stereotypes are spread, but I hope that these examples will help in establishing that they can be very wrong.

Just stay away from the propaganda of the far-left like MSNBC and the far-right like Fox news, and you'll have a more accurate idea of what is going on.

 

[Choppy]

Some data to throw into the discussion:
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/article/65/2/10.1063/PT.3.1439 [Broken]

 

[WWGD]

Some data to throw into the discussion:
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/article/65/2/10.1063/PT.3.1439 [Broken]

The problem I have with that report is that it relies on the perception and opinion of the respondents to a survey, and not on harder, more objective data. So it seems the only thing you can reliably conclude is that many women respondents perceive that they do not have the same opportunity, but that does not seem like very hard data. Besides, one of the claims made there, that women are overwhelmingly asked to take care of the children and do house chores because their income is lower than that of the man, is not as true today as it may have been at an earlier stage.

And the last paragraph of the study :" The low representation of women in physics is a problem the community needs to address, but the community also needs to address inequities in access to resources and opportunities. Cultural expectations about home and family also inhibit the progress of women physicists; those, of course, are much more difficult to change. Nonetheless, we look forward to a future in which science truly means science for all. "

Really makes them seem anything but objective, but instead normative since they have not given any evidence to any of the claims in the paragraph: where is the evidence of a difference of access to resources? Why is the low representation a problem? Similar for other claims. Some of these women seem to believe any man has it basically made when he enters into a science career.

And relying on these assumptions seems to reveal a bias on the authors themselves.

 

[Evo]

On 20 August 2012, an announcement was made by Iran's Ministry of Science, Research and Technology that 36 universities in Iran would be cutting 77 fields of study from the female curriculum, making them male-only fields. The fields chosen include most sciences and engineering, among others. The curriculum change is to begin being implemented for the 2013 school year and the fields of study limitations for women have been added to the university "leaflets".[7] Universities like the Oil Industry University have completely barred women from attending, citing the "lack of employer demand".[8]

The announcement came soon after the release of statistics showing that women were graduating in far higher numbers than men from Iranian universities and were scoring overall better than men, especially in the sciences.[9]

This reasoning was echoed by Isfahan University, which stated that from those that obtained mining engineering degrees "98% of female graduates ended up jobless."[9] The disciplines related to agriculture were also regarded as "unfit" for female students.[8] Therefore, as a consequence of this move, women will not become engineers, nuclear physicists, archaeologists, business graduates and computer scientists in Iran.[8] Additionally, they are also banned from attending the departments of English literature, translation and hotel management.[8] Another reason given was that because of a shortage of available female dormitories, attendance had to be lowered. A comparison was made, however, to the fact that nursing was made a female-only degree in the same announcement.[10]

The possibility of fields of study restrictions was first reported by the Mehr News Agency on 6 August 2012. The news followed the release of the year's entrance exam scores, showing that 60% of university attendees are women,[11] along with test scores of the past few years showing women largely outperforming men. This included 52% of university graduates being women and 68% of science degree graduates being women.[12] These results have caused concern among the senior clerics of the country, who became worried about the "social side-effects of rising educational standards among women, including declining birth and marriage rates".[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_gender_restrictions_in_education#20_August_2012_course_ban

 

[Student100]

I wonder why this is an issue, I guess I fail to see what difference it would make if the ratio of men to women was more evenly split. There aren't enough positions for current grads, increasing the number of those pursuing STEM would further add to the number of graduates who're unemployed or employed outside their field.

I wish there would come a time when we didn't analyze these things and continue to propagate judging our "equality" based on ratios of gender and race, it's effect is opposite to the one intended; if anything it results in what almost seems like a form of "legal" segregation.

 

[WWGD]

I wonder why this is an issue, I guess I fail to see what difference it would make if the ratio of men to women was more evenly split. There aren't enough positions for current grads, increasing the number of those pursuing STEM would further add to the number of graduates who're unemployed or employed outside their field.

I wish there would come a time when we didn't analyze these things and continue to propagate judging our "equality" based on ratios of gender and race, it's effect is opposite to the one intended; if anything it results in what almost seems like a form of "legal" segregation.

Sorry to be repeating it, but I think this is a result of the radicalization of news outlets, mostly Fox and MSNBC , both of which use business models that consist of attracting the radicals on each side, giving a voice to nuts on both sides; rarely do you see someone countering absurd claims by both the anti-government nuts and the feminist nuts. Note that I am not saying that there aren't any valid claims to be made by either group, but that when you give true believes free rein and do not challenge them, you end up with this level of absurdity.

 

[Curious3141]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_gender_restrictions_in_education#20_August_2012_course_ban

Not meaning to skew this off on a Middle Eastern political tangent, but in Iraq under Saddam, women enjoyed more rights and respect than they do now.

Source: http://www.irinnews.org/report/26289/iraq-women-were-more-respected-under-saddam-say-women-s-groups

Quote:

“Before the US-led invasion in 2003, women were free to go to schools, universities and work, and to perform other duties,” Senar added. “Now, due to security reasons and repression by the government, they’re being forced to stay in their homes.”

 

[jz92wjaz]

This is by no means a comprehensive list, but here are a few potential reasons:
1. Other careers are a much better fit for women who want to be the primary caregiver in a family.
2. Statements that undermine ability based on gender can discourage capable girls and lead them to pursue other careers that are more friendly to women. It can cause girls, especially those who consider themselves to be feminine, to lose interest in Math and Science at a very young age.
3. Along the lines of #2, the notion that science is for boys, leading to less exposure to the sciences in childhood, and fewer people suggesting science as a career option. They lose interest early on, and if they do become interested in the sciences later, they may have already fallen behind.
4. Desire not to be a minority and stand out. Too much male attention. Even when the attention is completely appropriate, it can be overwhelming.