Where are the Constants of Nature stored in Multiverse?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of constants in a multiverse context, specifically questioning where these constants are "stored" and how they maintain their values across different universes. Participants explore theoretical implications, the stability of these constants over time, and the relationship between multiverse theories and physical laws.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the need for constants of nature to be "stored" anywhere, suggesting that their stability does not require such encoding.
  • Others argue that if constants are not random variables, the existence of a multiverse producing different constants becomes problematic.
  • There are inquiries about why constants of nature remain stable for billions of years if they are not encoded in some structure.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the multiverse concept, noting the lack of evidence and the speculative nature of current models.
  • A point is raised regarding the appeal of string theory, suggesting it may provide a framework for understanding the values of particle masses, though this remains speculative without experimental validation.
  • One participant introduces the idea of metastable vacuum states as a potential explanation for different physical laws in various post-inflationary patches of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the nature of constants in the multiverse or the implications of their stability. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of "storage" for these constants and the validity of multiverse theories.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between constants of nature and multiverse theories, particularly regarding assumptions about stability and the lack of empirical evidence for multiverse existence.

jtlz
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In Multiverses where there are different constants of nature such as the mass of the electron or the value of the strong coupling constants. Where are the values stored? If there were no compactified calabi-yau manifolds that produced the values and they were just like that. What maintains the constant value? For example. Can't you isolate the electron or atom and do something to change its constant? Why not since there were no formulas or structure producing the values and in each multiverse, there were different values.. so why can't you change the value when you isolate the particle or atom?
 
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jtlz said:
Where are the values stored?

Why do they have to be "stored" anywhere?

jtlz said:
Can't you isolate the electron or atom and do something to change its constant?

No.

jtlz said:
why can't you change the value when you isolate the particle or atom?

Why do you think you should be able to?

Basically, you appear to be asking why the laws of physics are the way they are. The only answer we know is "because". Asking why questions has to stop somewhere.
 
PeterDonis said:
Why do they have to be "stored" anywhere?

If they are not stored somewhere or encoded in structure size like cabali-yau manifolds. Why are they stabled for billions of years since the big bang?
Any example where this can happen too?
No.
Why do you think you should be able to?

Basically, you appear to be asking why the laws of physics are the way they are. The only answer we know is "because". Asking why questions has to stop somewhere.
 
jtlz said:
If they are not stored somewhere or encoded in structure size like cabali-yau manifolds. Why are they stabled for billions of years since the big bang?

Because that's the way the laws of physics are. Again, why shouldn't they be stable? Why would they have to be stored or encoded somewhere to be stable?
 
PeterDonis said:
Because that's the way the laws of physics are. Again, why shouldn't they be stable? Why would they have to be stored or encoded somewhere to be stable?

If multiverse produced different directions or speeds of winds. They can change afterwards because the variable are random. Unless they are encoded in structure for example the sizes of stones. So is the constant of nature like random wind?
 
jtlz said:
If multiverse produced different directions or speeds of winds. They can change afterwards because the variable are random. Unless they are encoded in structure for example the sizes of stones. So is the constant of nature like random wind?

I don't understand what you're talking about. Constants of nature are constants of nature. They don't have to be like anything else. They don't have to work like anything else. They certainly aren't random variables.
 
PeterDonis said:
I don't understand what you're talking about. Constants of nature are constants of nature. They don't have to be like anything else. They don't have to work like anything else. They certainly aren't random variables.

If they are not random variables. Then multiverse shouldn't be true bec they should not be able to produce random constants...
 
jtlz said:
If they are not random variables. Then multiverse shouldn't be true

They aren't random variables in the universe we observe; they're constant. Whether the multiverse exists, and whether the values of any of those constants are different in other universes in the multiverse, are separate questions. Since we have no evidence for the existence of a multiverse, and no single agreed model of how a multiverse works, it's all just speculation anyway.
 
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PeterDonis said:
They aren't random variables in the universe we observe; they're constant. Whether the multiverse exists, and whether the values of any of those constants are different in other universes in the multiverse, are separate questions. Since we have no evidence for the existence of a multiverse, and no single agreed model of how a multiverse works, it's all just speculation anyway.

Why do you think some people are so attracted to string theory? Is it not because a particular geometry for the extra dimensions should determine specific values for the particle masses, etc. in comparson to standard model where the cause of the masses particular values were unknown?
 
  • #10
jtlz said:
Why do you think some people are so attracted to string theory?

I couldn't say. But even if it's for the reason you give, what does that have to do with the question of whether it's true? The fact is that we have no way of testing any of these speculations experimentally, and unless and until we do, they remain speculations. They don't get a special pass just because some people like the way they answer particular currently unanswered questions.
 
  • #11
A good point of reference might be what is it that locks down values of the physical constants in this universe?
 
  • #12
I'm not getting where the idea of "different physics" in different post-inflationary patches comes from. This would be possible _if_ there are many possible metastable vacuum states.

If, on the contrary, there are only a few of them, or even one, then there will be only a few, or even one, possible types of bubbles. Right?
 

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