Where did I go wrong in deriving quantized energy?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of quantized energy, specifically the relationship between angular velocity (ω), energy (E), and Planck's constant (h). Participants explore the mathematical steps involved in the derivation and identify potential errors or misconceptions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to derive the relationship ω = E/h but encounters a factor of ½ in their calculations, leading to confusion about the correct expression.
  • Another participant questions the context of the derivation, asking whether it pertains to billiard balls or marbles, and suggests typesetting equations for clarity.
  • A later reply challenges the assumption that ω = kv is universally applicable, noting it holds true for photons but not in general cases.
  • Participants discuss the distinction between different energy equations, specifically E = mc² and E = mv²/2, and the implications of the factor of ½ in one of them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain assumptions in the derivation, particularly regarding the relationship between angular velocity and wave number. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the applicability of certain equations to different physical contexts, and the discussion highlights the need for clarity in definitions and conditions under which the relationships hold.

SpaceNerdz
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
TL;DR
I've been trying to derive ω = E/hbar, but to no success. I thought it was fairly straight forward derivation, could some one point out my mistake ?
OK, so I just want to show ω = E/h = kv, but I keep running into errors, I don't know why.

So, let's start with momentum:
p^2 / 2m = E
p^2 = 2mE
p = sqrt(2mE)
h/λ = sqrt(2mE)
hk = sqrt(2mE)
k = sqrt(2mE)/h

So far so good. Now let's start with conserved Energy
E= ½ mv^2
2E/m = v^2
v = sqrt(2E/m)

So, the angular velocity is :
ω = kv
ω = sqrt(2mE)/h *. sqrt(2E/m)
ω = 2E/ h
E = ½ hω

This is weird. Where did the ½ come from ?

I thought its E = hω.

Can someone tell me where I went wrong ? I'm pretty sure the algebra is correct, but am I introducing some concept where I shouldn't ? Please let me know !
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi,

Is this for billiard balls or for marbles ?

Can you typeset your equations ? It is difficult to deciper your ##\hbar## invention.

Any context ?

(guidelines point 7)

Check out E and p http://depts.washington.edu/jrphys/ph248S16/PhotoEffEqu-16.pdf
 
Last edited:
SpaceNerdz said:
Summary:: I've been trying to derive ω = E/hbar, but to no success. I thought it was fairly straight forward derivation, could some one point out my mistake ?

So, the angular velocity is :
ω = kv
That was the mistake. What made you think that ##\omega=kv##? It's true for photons (with ##v=c##), but in general it's not true.

Your confusion is also closely related to another frequent confusion about the formulas ##E=mc^2## and ##E=mv^2/2##. Can you explain why only one of them has the factor ##1/2##?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
962
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K