Where in the world do those elctrons go?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electron energy levels in atoms, particularly focusing on the behavior of valence electrons in elements beyond Ununoctium (element 118) and the concept of Rydberg atoms. Participants explore the limits of energy levels, the definition of Rydberg atoms, and the implications of increasing atomic numbers on these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how many energy levels a valence electron can occupy above element 118 before the atom becomes a Rydberg atom, and what determines this number.
  • Another participant asserts that there are infinite atomic energy levels in free atoms, noting that as energy approaches zero, the levels become very close together.
  • A participant states that there is no clear definition of a Rydberg atom.
  • One participant suggests that the closeness of energy levels as the principal quantum number approaches infinity could be seen as a limit, questioning whether this limit is calculable, especially considering the effects of increasing proton numbers.
  • Another participant clarifies that while energy levels get closer together as the principal quantum number approaches infinity, this does not define a limit, and emphasizes that a bound electron must have negative energy.
  • This participant also mentions that the definition of a Rydberg atom is not straightforward and depends on the conditions under which the energy levels approximate a continuum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of Rydberg atoms and the nature of energy levels, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of Rydberg atoms and the implications of energy level behavior as atomic numbers increase, which remain unresolved.

wildee44
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There are electron energy levels up to 118 Ununoctium. So my question is. How many levels can a valence electron occupy above 118 before there are no more levels and the atom becomes a Ryberg atom and what determines this number and is this number the same for hydrogen.
 
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There are infinite atomic energy levels in every free atom. As you approach E=0, the energy levels get very close together though.

Note: Some energy levels may have a number of electrons in them, so 118Un, in it's ground state, has fewer than 118 occupied energy levels.
 
There is no bright line definition of a Rydberg atom.
 
If the energy levels get closer together as l aproaches infinity isn't that pretty much the definition of a limit and if so wouldn't that limit be calculable? Realizing of course the relative effects as proton numbers increase past 118. Thereby giving limits to the ryberg effect? PS thanks for the replys.
 
Energy levels get closer together as ##n## (the principle quantum number) approaches infinity - that is not the definition of a limit, no. You need something to take the limit of - in this case, there is an implied limit to the largest value that the energy of a bound electron can have.

Now you have a limit - and you can work it out quite easily: it's zero.
An electron with a positive energy is not bound to the atom.

It is because the energy levels get close together that the Rydberg atom electron wavefunctions approximate classical orbits like they do.

I don't know what you mean by "the Rydberg effect".
But like dauto indicates, there is no easy definition of when an atom becomes a Rydberg atom... which I suspect is what you are trying to figure out.
The energy levels just have to be close enough together to approximate a continuum - and that depends on the circumstances.
 

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