Which Elements Belong in H? [SOLVED] Question about a Subset of Z

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem from a GRE practice exam regarding a subset of integers that forms a group under addition. Participants analyze the conditions under which certain elements can belong to this group, specifically focusing on the implications of the group's properties and the interpretation of the problem statement.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that since H is a group under addition, it must contain the identity element 0, leading to the conclusion that none of the proposed elements can be the identity.
  • Another participant suggests that the interpretation of the problem allows for H to contain three elements from the specified set without requiring 0 to be included, indicating a possible misreading of the problem.
  • A later reply acknowledges the initial misunderstanding and recognizes that elements like pq and p^q can be derived from the addition of p, suggesting that the correct answer is (e).
  • One participant critiques the language used in the problem, stating that the term "contains" could be misleading and implies a need for clearer wording.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the problem's requirements, particularly regarding the necessity of including the identity element in the group. The discussion reflects a lack of consensus on the implications of the problem statement and the correct interpretation of the group properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in the problem's wording, particularly concerning the definition of "contains" versus "consists of," which may affect participants' understanding of the group's structure.

DavidWhitbeck
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[SOLVED] Question about a subset of Z

So I was working on exercises out of Gallain's Algebra book and it looks like it doesn't actually have an answer! So of course I disagree with the answer in the back of the book, maybe I'm missing something.

Context Only provided theory is the definition of a group (chapter 2 in Gallain).

Problem
(From the GRE Practice Exam) Let [tex]p[/tex] and [tex]q[/tex] be distinct primes. Suppose that H is a proper subset of the integers and H is a group under addition that contains exactly three elements of the set [tex]\{ p,p+q,pq,p^q,q^p \}[/tex]. Determine which of the following are the three elements in H.
(a) [tex]pq, p^q, q^p[/tex]
(b) [tex]p+q,pq,p^q[/tex]
(c) [tex]p,p+q,pq[/tex]
(d) [tex]p,p^q,q^p[/tex]
(e) [tex]p,pq,p^q[/tex]

My work
The identity for the addition operator is 0. If H is a group it must contain the identify as one of the elements. That implies that one of those four elements is 0.
(a) It's not p because p is prime, and 0 is not prime by definition.
(b) Similarly, it's not q.
(c) If [tex]p^q = 0 \Rightarrow p = 0[/tex] but p is not 0, so it's not [tex]p^q[/tex].
(d) Similarly, it's not [tex]q^p[/tex].
(e) If [tex]p + q = 0[/tex] then either p or q is negative. Negative integers are not prime by definition, so it's not p+q.

I have just shown that none of the elements are the identity, and so H is not a group and the problem is ill-posed.

Correct Solution (back of the book) (e)

Where have I gone wrong? Before you ask, I didn't type it wrong, I reproduced it exactly as it appeared in the book.
 
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Hi David! :smile:
H is a proper subset of the integers and H is a group under addition that contains exactly three elements of the set { , , , , }

I would read that as meaning that the group addition is the ordinary addition of integers, and that H contains infinitely many elements, but only three from the specified set. :smile:
 
Oh thanks Tim! You're right, and my misreading was enough to completely throw me off. Now I see it, I don't need 0 to be in there and no longer fixated around that I see that pq and p^q can all be built from adding p successive times and so it's (e). And I was making the problem harder than it was supposed to be.
 
the language "contains" is misleading, but for your interpretation to have been correct, it probably would have said "consists of".
 

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