The discussion centers on identifying the key or scale that supports the chords D minor, G major, C major, and potentially B-flat major. Participants conclude that these chords are primarily found within the C major scale, with B-flat functioning as the IV chord in the subdominant key of F major. The song "Gold Dust Woman" by Fleetwood Mac is highlighted as a practical example, utilizing the Dorian mode, which incorporates modal alterations and emphasizes the ambiguity of the tonal center. The conversation underscores the importance of understanding chord relationships and modal interchange in contemporary music.
PREREQUISITESMusicians, music students, and composers interested in understanding chord progressions, modal theory, and the application of music theory in popular songs.
Well the notes of the Dm triad are D, F, A; Gmaj G, B, D and Cmaj C, E, G. What key has all the notes D, E, F, G, A, B and C in?symbolipoint said:What key or scale relies on this set of chords? Or, which key or scale gives and supports these chords?
Its super common - Dm G and C are all within C major and Bb is the IV chord in the subdominant key of F major. Common practice western pop, jazz and classical does not typically stay in one key or scale for an entire song / piecesymbolipoint said:I have tried a web search and poked through some scales and chord set using an instrument, but I cannot make formal sense of a song which uses Dminor, Gmaj, Cmaj, and seems to but not sure also includes B flat majr. My musical knowledge is limited. What key or scale relies on this set of chords? Or, which key or scale gives and supports these chords?
I suspect that the quoted piece above is the best or correct answer, although I do not understand it well. In my attempts up to now to try to understand my original question, the B-flat note or B-flat major chord was throwing me off.BWV said:Its super common - Dm G and C are all within C major and Bb is the IV chord in the subdominant key of F major. Common practice western pop, jazz and classical does not typically stay in one key or scale for an entire song / piece
Gold Dust Woman - Nicks & Buckinghamhmmm27 said:What's the song ? or something you've made up that sounds good.
So throw out everything I said above. Its in an ambiguous Dm with some modal alterations with the double drop tuningsymbolipoint said:Gold Dust Woman - Nicks & Buckingham
Too soon to make a judgement on that. If I could understand what @TeethWhitener says in post #10, then we would know. Too soon to discount your own knowledge. (time to explore a scale or two...)BWV said:So throw out everything I said above. Its in an ambiguous Dm with some modal alterations with the double drop tuning
So ignore the Roman numerals in his post, they are irrelevant - the point is this tune is in D and leans heavily, but not exclusively, on the Dorian mode and does not follow the typical conventions for major or minor harmony. If the song did follow these conventions then Roman numerals, which denote ‘harmonic function’ - a concept developed in the 19th century to describe 18th and 19th century classical music like Bach or Mozart (although neither one ever saw or used a Roman numeral) - would perhaps be useful. The Dorian mode gives the song its folkish flavor - like Scarborough Faire or Drunken Sailor - two old folk songs in the Dorian modesymbolipoint said:Too soon to make a judgement on that. If I could understand what @TeethWhitener says in post #10, then we would know. Too soon to discount your own knowledge. (time to explore a scale or two...)
Probably the closest example would be Keith Emerson strumming the piano in Take a Pebble by Emerson, Lake & Palmer. The song is the second track of their eponymous debut album (1970). But then it also has the minor notes.pbuk said:What key has all the notes D, E, F, G, A, B and C in?
https://www.pianoscales.org/minor.html - see various scalesYes - Parallelssymbolipoint said:I have tried a web search and poked through some scales and chord set using an instrument, but I cannot make formal sense of a song which uses Dminor, Gmaj, Cmaj, and seems to but not sure also includes B flat majr. My musical knowledge is limited. What key or scale relies on this set of chords? Or, which key or scale gives and supports these chords?
Another Brick in the Wall goes from Dm to Gsymbolipoint said:I have tried a web search and poked through some scales and chord set using an instrument, but I cannot make formal sense of a song which uses Dminor, Gmaj, Cmaj, and seems to but not sure also includes B flat majr. My musical knowledge is limited. What key or scale relies on this set of chords? Or, which key or scale gives and supports these chords?
Astronuc said:https://www.pianoscales.org/minor.html - see various scalesYes - Parallels
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/yes/parallels-chords-2362399
Emerson, Lake and Palmer - Karn Evil 9 1st Impression, Pt. 1 and Pt. 2
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/ta...n-evil-9-1st-impression-part-2-chords-4230166
Pt. 1 - Pt. 2 - I like how Doug Helvering analyzes tunes/songs
For the old timers - In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly (1968) - I really liked the organ by Doug Ingle
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/iron-butterfly/in-a-gadda-da-vida-chords-647757
Dorian is pretty common in rock music, mainly because it is pretty common in blues and jazz.symbolipoint said:Too soon to make a judgement on that. If I could understand what @TeethWhitener says in post #10, then we would know. Too soon to discount your own knowledge. (time to explore a scale or two...)
Great track.symbolipoint said:Gold Dust Woman - Nicks & Buckingham
What do you play?symbolipoint said:So far for most practical purpose, the statement of chords 1, 2, & 5 from the C major scale is the one easiest (for me) to handle.
In terms of the structure?I think duck and water will happen!symbolipoint said:So far for most practical purpose, the statement of chords 1, 2, & 5 from the C major scale is the one easiest (for me) to handle.
I would score that song in D minor (ie 1 flat), and IMHO @BWV, @TeethWhitener and @pinball1970 have all more or less nailed it, however they are all missing the essential hook: you never hear the chord of D minor. Specifically, the minor third note (F) is only ever played as the fifth in a Bb major chord, the only Ds you hear are D5 (i.e. just D and A) and a little bit of Dsus2.symbolipoint said:Gold Dust Woman - Nicks & Buckingham
That might be the case if you only look at the guitar part, but the very first note of the melody is an F over the Dsus chord. It’s a D minor.pbuk said:you never hear the chord of D minor.
That is why I, if not other listeners, think they/we hear a D minor. Stevie at least supplies this in the singing.TeethWhitener said:That might be the case if you only look at the guitar part, but the very first note of the melody is an F over the Dsus chord. It’s a D minor.
I was also looking at the melody, but you are right: the vocal enters on an F with the band still on a D5 (the Dsus2 comes a little earlier).TeethWhitener said:That might be the case if you only look at the guitar part, but the very first note of the melody is an F over the Dsus chord. It’s a D minor.
Yes, in particular there is the repeated F-E-D (did she ma-ke you cry, make you break down) over the ascending chromatic Bb-G/B-C backing, your mind is resolving into D minor, but the music is just the D and A perfect fifth!symbolipoint said:That is why I, if not other listeners, think they/we hear a D minor. Stevie at least supplies this in the singing.
I believe I never found that one. (the "demo" you describe)pbuk said:This clearly evolved in the studio - there's a demo on You Tube which has more audible minor thirds (and also a weird bridge into an outro which really doesn't fit).
Upon listening to that one, I believe you're right!hmmm27 said:I was thinking hey that drone chord could outright be Dmaj without messing anything up, and sho'nuff.