White Gold Alloy Proportions: Is this Wikipedia Diagram Accurate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the accuracy of a diagram from Wikipedia depicting the proportions of metals in white gold alloys, specifically questioning whether the proportions of copper (Cu), gold (Au), and silver (Ag) add up correctly. The conversation includes technical explanations of how to interpret the diagram and critiques of its presentation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the accuracy of the Wikipedia diagram, noting that the proportions seem to add up to 150% for equal portions of each metal.
  • Another participant clarifies that the diagram is not wrong but may be difficult to read, explaining that any alloy is represented as a point on the diagram that can be interpreted to yield proportions totaling 100%.
  • A participant acknowledges understanding the diagram after the explanation, noting that the equipotential lines can be interpreted in a way that confirms the proportions work out correctly.
  • There is a suggestion that the Wikipedia contributors could improve the clarity of their presentation.
  • Another participant defends the diagram's method of presentation, stating that it is a conventional approach that predates Wikipedia and provides a link to an external resource for further context.
  • One participant reflects on their earlier criticism of the Wikipedia contributors, suggesting that critiques should be more gentle, acknowledging the contributions of experts working voluntarily.
  • There is a discussion about the rotation of the diagram and how the interpretation of proportions can depend on the way the axes are set, indicating some uncertainty about conventions in diagram interpretation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity and presentation of the Wikipedia diagram, with some agreeing that it could be improved while others defend its conventional use. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall effectiveness of the diagram.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for clarity in presenting three-component mixtures and the potential for confusion in interpreting the diagram. There is mention of conventions in diagram interpretation that may not be universally understood.

Phrak
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Is this Wikipedia diagram of white gold alloy wrong? The contributing proportions of Cu, Au and Ag seem to add up to 150% for equal portions of each metal.

350px-Ag-Au-Cu-colours-english.svg.png


This is from the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored_gold#White_gold"
 
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It is not wrong, it's just harder to read.

Any alloy is a point on the diagram, which is then transformed into 3 proportions of each totaling 100%.

The way to read. Set a random point or what alloy you want. from that point draw 3 lines parallel to the sides of the triangle. The %'s will be clearly visible and totaling 100%.
 
OK. Now I see it, now that you've stated it that way. The equipotential lines pinwheel counterclockwise and it seems to work out correctly.

For 33.3% of each it works out and the axes intersect in the center of the triange. Pinwheel to the right, instead, and you get 66,7% of each. I think the wikipedia contributors need to work a little harder in their presentation!
 
Phrak said:
I think the wikipedia contributors need to work a little harder in their presentation!

Wikipedia has its quirks, but don't blame it for your own lack of knowledge :wink: This method of presenting properties of three component mixtures predates wikipedia, see for example http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/96ClassProj/experimental/ternary2.html
 
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Phrak said:
OK. Now I see it, now that you've stated it that way. The equipotential lines pinwheel counterclockwise and it seems to work out correctly.

The rotaion can be clockwise too it all depends on the way you set the 0 to 100 % on each side. I'm sure there is a convention about this but, it's just the same and can appear sometimes.
 
Borek said:
Wikipedia has its quirks, but don't blame it for your own lack of knowledge :wink: This method of presenting properties of three component mixtures predates wikipedia, see for example...

Yeah, that was a bit harsh of me. The criticism of experts working for free should be gentle.

So I went to your quoted website and it said this,

"Reading the compositions of iron, chromium and nickel at any point on the stainless steel ternary phase diagram in Fig. 2 is simple. Instead of drawing one tie-line, as in a binary phase diagram , three lines are drawn, each parallel to a side of the triangle and going through the point in question. Extend the lines so they pass through an axes. To find the iron composition, the line drawn parallel to the axis opposite the Fe vertex is the one needed. The percent iron is then read off the axis."

OK. So we keep the vertex at x=0 in mind and draw the equipotentials of x so they are parallel to the axis opposite x=0. That helps.

And thanks Lok. That makes sense.
 
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