Who Created God? Understanding the Universe's Self-Awareness

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical and existential questions regarding the creation of God and the nature of existence. Participants explore concepts of consciousness, the universe, and the implications of time and matter on the existence of a creator. The scope includes theoretical, conceptual, and philosophical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Philosophical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the universe's structure implies a form of intelligence, suggesting that the universe may be self-aware.
  • Others argue that without matter, time and space do not exist, making the concepts of beginning and end meaningless.
  • One participant suggests that consciousness and the universe are interconnected, with energy being the essence of existence.
  • Another viewpoint posits that God is a construct of human consciousness, serving as a psychological mechanism to provide comfort and moral structure.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the ability to prove or disprove the existence of God, suggesting that the questions posed may not be appropriate.
  • There is a suggestion that the existence of God could be a collective creation of humanity, rather than an external entity.
  • One participant mentions the idea that many people seek a "Big Brother" figure in God for comfort and moral guidance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the existence or nature of God. Multiple competing perspectives remain, and the discussion is characterized by uncertainty and differing interpretations of existence and consciousness.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding due to the abstract nature of the concepts discussed, including the dependence on definitions of time, space, and existence. There are unresolved questions regarding the nature of reality and the tools appropriate for exploring these philosophical inquiries.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring philosophical questions about existence, consciousness, and the nature of divinity, as well as individuals engaged in debates about the intersection of science and spirituality.

  • #31
Consciousness is awareness of the Self: Who an I, What am I? Where was I during sleep? Why did I regain the same world awareness after sleep etc.
Why do I perceive and differently than others, why I am more lovung , more peaceful and happier than others etc
Finally, what is the cause of my existence, where was I before I took this body, where will I go after I leave the body etc.
Eventough I have the same physical constituents what makes me different and so on.
 
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  • #32
Albert Einstein: "God does not play dice"

To deny words by Einstein it is possible by one way only – to prove that the God does not exist.
In the age of 11 years I have been sent to special school. It was half the militarian, half the craft. In the first day our group of beginners have been led in the big educational building. In a hall of this building, on walls, the big portraits of members of the government (approximately 20 portraits) were hung. We went along walls and with curiosity examined portraits. In front of one of portraits I was stiffened. All has shuddered inside me. I was the child and consequently did not know, who is represented on this portrait. The name – Beria for me spoke nothing.
After many years I have learned, that it is that executioner, who made bereave of lives of my relatives and have deprived with the normal childhood millions other boys.
I want to ask, who and how have transferred to me the truth then through a canvas with painted physiognomy of this executioner?

Therefore, I think – the God exists also Einstein of the rights.
 
  • #33
God does not play dice

vlamir said:
Albert Einstein: "God does not play dice"

To deny words by Einstein it is possible by one way only – to prove that the God does not exist.

Ever since I first heard that Albert Einstein said that god does not play dice, I have thought a little bit less about our wonderful scientist. To state that god does not play dice requires that the speaker knows god fully; otherwise the speaker cannot make a statement which portrays certainty about some'one' else. No matter how highly I regard Einstein, I never thought he would make such statement that would make him claim that he fully knows god. Shows that he was human after all.
 
  • #34
Material Universe is just a projection of our mind. Mind is a depository of thoughts. Thoughts are what make the universe happen. All creation has its origin in thought. Thought is ever changing and all that comes out of thought is bound by the law of time, space and causation. As some one rightly pointed out God is a trick played by the mind. In fact each one of us is potentially God and God there is only one. What appears to be many is only a delusion like the many rising and disappearing waves in an ocean. God- we all are covering the vast ocean of conciousness, without beginning or end. Unbound by the laws of time, space and causation which have beginning and end. Only by crossing the boundaries of time , space and causation can we realize that we are GOD.
 
  • #35
Absolutely truly, Reena!
God is placed inside us.
Recently I wrote the big and rigid poem, which is to the devoted tragical events in Russia in 1917. As an epigraph of my poem, I used the poem "Prediction" by Lermontov.
I have decided to finish my poem with words from Alexander Pushkin's letter to his uncle in 1816. These words: "God grant, with mercy of the sky, the mind revived in Russia … ".
But I did not remember the name of the letter. Therefore, I looked through tables of contents of all of six volume of works by A. Pushkin. But I did not find this letter.
Then again I have taken in hands the first volum and have opened it at random.
At once, in open page, I have seen this letter by A. Pushkin. It begins with words: "Christ has arisen! Alumnus by Feb! …"
Now I should tell, that it not a miracle and not concurrence.
I have in house many books, both art, and scientific, but I badly remember – where necessary citations are located. God very much frequently helps me to find instantly the helpful information.
God also has helped me to glance inside of my consciousness, and I have seen, how elementary cells of human mind work.
http://www.sinor.ru/~polytron/index.html
I am astonished with, how many full fools among representatives of the exact sciences, who do not understand, that the God is placed inside us!
 
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  • #36
Rader said:
Answer 01=Only if all forms might be in the image and likeness of the final unchangeable form.

Answer 02=All physical forms are of the same essence. We now know that all forms reduce down to relationships. Nothing is ever created or destroyed just transmuted.

You're all forgrting something.God can't exist eternally,everything that exists are only forms of energy,no form of energy lasts forever,God dies and transforms into another form of energy where properties of God no longer exist,so no form of energy can exist forever.
 
  • #37
Perhaps, I can agree with you only in part.
Because, here the answer is not given – how the organizing basis is arranged?
Maybe exists the universal carrier for all forms of energy, including spiritual energy?
 
  • #38
vlamir said:
Perhaps, I can agree with you only in part.
Because, here the answer is not given – how the organizing basis is arranged?
Maybe exists the universal carrier for all forms of energy, including spiritual energy?

That's the same question I was wondering,it must incredibly complex process,honestly I don't think science will ever find out,sure there are laws of physics under which processes occur,but how are these laws of physics made,if there were no laws of physics there would be no universe,I think what laws of of physics do to our universe is to keep the balance.Plus everything vibrates,just imagine you find energy vibration resonance of God,you would be able to destroy him(you would be able to destroy God)...
 
  • #39
I created God and then i resurrected a 9 month old thread!
 
  • #40
The Einstein quote wasn't really meant to be religious, it was saying more that Einstein saw things in exactness, not probability. I think people misinterpret that all the time.
 
  • #41
There was and interesting story some years ago when Eisenhower entered a room full of computers and posed the question "is there a god" Well after a few minutes of lights flashing and bell ringing, a voice comes forth and says "NOW There Is"(smile). Lesson point; It may not be too wise to go arround asking a question with such an obvious answer :zzz: :smile: .
 
  • #42
Certainly, alone physics cannot answer this incredibly complex question. Especially since, the theoretical physics is in deep crisis.
We are too silly, if we think, that we can become stronger, than the God.
The God can destroy us at any time, including by means of vibration.
It is the most destructive force, which can operate from the microcosm outward.
 
  • #43
vlamir said:
Certainly, alone physics cannot answer this incredibly complex question. Especially since, the theoretical physics is in deep crisis.
We are too silly, if we think, that we can become stronger, than the God.
The God can destroy us at any time, including by means of vibration.
It is the most destructive force, which can operate from the microcosm outward.

And God can be destroyed,too,since he vibrates,too.Even every form of energy vibrates.
 
  • #44
Geneticists who thought that they had tiger by the tail, and felt too high about knowing the secret of creation have egg on their face. DNA which originated from the Nature cannot claim supremacy over Nature! Sily ego makes scientist fragment themselves into pieces!
Man with a destructible material body can never know the truth about God nor know that he is God himself until he becomes egoless. It is he who has birth nor death and one who is beyond time, space or causation knows that he himself is God. Look within and you shall find the truth. Every material entity is changeable with time and therefore it cannot be real. What is real never changes.
DNA does not express biological life. It is only a blueprint that repeats itself and its expression depends on You ...Your Thought. Thought is the basis of energy and matter. thought alone became primal energy and primal matter which combined to form multitude of galaxies and species.
 
  • #45
]Geneticists who thought that they had tiger by the tail, and felt too high about knowing the secret of creation have egg on their face. DNA which originated from the Nature cannot claim supremacy over Nature! Sily ego makes scientist fragment themselves into pieces!
Man with a destructible material body can never know the truth about God nor know that he is God himself until he becomes egoless. It is he who has birth nor death and one who is beyond time, space or causation knows that he himself is God. Look within and you shall find the truth. Every material entity is changeable with time and therefore it cannot be real. What is real never changes.
DNA does not express biological life. It is only a blueprint that repeats itself and its expression depends on You ...Your Thought. Thought is the basis of energy and matter. thought alone became primal energy and primal matter which combined to form multitude of galaxies and species.
 
  • #46
Neurons created god. Before neurons, no god(s) in universe. Thus, god exists within collective neurons of humans, i.e., the Kingdom of God is within you (all of you, and me)--a nice warm fuzzy philosophy to hold.
 
  • #47
Rade said:
Neurons created god. Before neurons, no god(s) in universe. Thus, god exists within collective neurons of humans, i.e., the Kingdom of God is within you (all of you, and me)--a nice warm fuzzy philosophy to hold.
So, who created the neurons? Or, would you have us believe there is something about neurons which go uncaused?
 
  • #48
Want created God. It's more of a glitches fault, but eh.
 
  • #49
No one created God, that's why God's God. God's self existant.
 
  • #50
Men created god, first in verbal storytelling and then later in written stories.
 
  • #51
And who created men? Perhaps they don't need creator!
 
  • #52
good topic, always a debate going on here... I'm new but would like to share...

Evo, i have to disagree, and to all the others that think we created God in our own minds. I find a lot of times people tend to think on the level, or higher, than our creator, which is silly. How can you even begin to comment toward the very creator? lol, beats me...

Here's something to think about... many, many people will dispute, however its a solid argument...

If something does not exist, how can the mind think it true? Having said that, if God does NOT exist, then how can anyone person "think" even the thought of "a God" into existence? The human mind is incapable of such thing as a true 'original thought'. No matter what, every single thought the human mind thinks of has some truth to it, or has come from some other comprehensible thought. For instance: There have been families that have locked up their child since birth in a room due to manic depressions and other very odd mental behaviors. when CPS services found the children, they had the intellect of a 1 yr old. they couldn't speak, never knew what anything was, never even had an idea... because they were never taught anything. The mind is a learning box, so to speak. So if there never was a God, how could the mind ever think of it, if there was no such vision, story, or even idea ever to come about?

try to think of something that doesn't exist. without any truth to it, or coming from a previous thought. really try... it's impossible. example: ever see a pig with wings? doesn't exist right? of course... however we know what a pig is and we know what wings are. so there's still some truth, no matter what. bottom line is, if it doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist... not even in the human mind. at some point in time, someone had to "learn" the knowledge of God. but from who? or what? not a human mind, that's for sure.

think about it... for all you non-believers... ;-)
 
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  • #53
Lisa! said:
And who created men? Perhaps they don't need creator!

Non-linear dynamics created man: In my opinion, get a bunch of marbles behaving in the same non-linear fashion as biological life, and marble life will emerge. From this perspective, life is independent of the inconsequential trappings of Biology, Chemistry, and Physics but rather a reflection of dynamics.
 
  • #54
StykFacE said:
Evo, i have to disagree, and to all the others that think we created God in our own minds. I find a lot of times people tend to think on the level, or higher, than our creator, which is silly. How can you even begin to comment toward the very creator? lol, beats me...
Because there is no such thing as a creator, in my opinion.

If something does not exist, how can the mind think it true?
Very easily, it's done all the time.
 
  • #55
Evo said:
Very easily, it's done all the time.

then show us.

one example... please.
:biggrin:
 
  • #56
StykFacE said:
try to think of something that doesn't exist. without any truth to it, or coming from a previous thought. really try... it's impossible. example: ever see a pig with wings? doesn't exist right? of course... however we know what a pig is and we know what wings are. so there's still some truth, no matter what. bottom line is, if it doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist... not even in the human mind. at some point in time, someone had to "learn" the knowledge of God. but from who? or what? not a human mind, that's for sure.

think about it... for all you non-believers... ;-)
So I guess you are arguing that just like a pig with wings, god exists only as a figment of the imagination? I like that!
 
  • #57
Doc Al said:
So I guess you are arguing that just like a pig with wings, god exists only as a figment of the imagination? I like that!
oh no, now you know better than that... ;-)

of course i don't think that. just giving an example that any thought you and any other person has ever had, has truth to it no matter the case.

:-)
 
  • #58
By any thought having "truth" you just mean that the thought exists in the mind (the brain) as a thought. (I hope that's not a surprise to anyone. :rolleyes: ) That's a rather unusual use of the word "truth". This says nothing about whether there exists a corresponding referent outside of the mind. (Which is where the real action is!)
 
  • #59
Doc Al said:
By any thought having "truth" you just mean that the thought exists in the mind (the brain) as a thought. (I hope that's not a surprise to anyone. :rolleyes: ) That's a rather unusual use of the word "truth". This says nothing about whether there exists a corresponding referent outside of the mind. (Which is where the real action is!)
so you are implying any thought that relates outside of the mind doesn't have truth?
 
  • #60
StykFacE said:
so you are implying any thought that relates outside of the mind doesn't have truth?
Seems like a fairly meaningless statement to me.
 

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