Who's sick of seeing all those flags everywhere?

[halfdyke]

[SOLVED] who's sick of seeing all those flags everywhere?

let's be honest here, the people who have all those flags on their houses, cars, etc., are just doing it to be "part of the crowd" which is sad because that flag is supposed to represent the people of america. if the people of america are just a bunch of dorks who paste the flag everywhere to be "part of the crowd" then i don't want to be here anymore.

 

[megashawn]

I have a flag hanging. I've had a flag hanging. I'll keep a flag hanging.

There is nothing wrong with being patriotic, which you did not create a voting spot for.

I agree that it is sad that you see all these flags popup post - 9/11.

Some people did it because they'd become so secure feeling and honestly, didn't really think about being patriotic except on the 4th of july. Alot of people felt guilty, and to make up for there guilt, purchased a 2 flags for each vehicle, and 4 for each corner of the house.

And then of course you got the clones. The people who want to be just like everyone else. This my friend, makes up the majority of the population. Everyone wants to be someone else. A few, are quite happy being themselves.

If you can modify the poll, include an option for the person who has always flown one flag, and you'll get my vote.

 

[Dave]

What flags are you talking about?

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Dave
What flags are you talking about?

After 9/11, American flags appeared EVERYWHERE in the US virtually overnight.

IMO, its inspiring.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by russ_watters
After 9/11, American flags appeared EVERYWHERE in the US virtually overnight.

IMO, its inspiring.

We're certainlly not as patrioctic as you are over here in NZ

 

[Sting]

There is nothing wrong with being patriotic. It's their right to hang an American flag wherever they want.

The only problem I see with it is that in some people, it only instigates a racial bias on "who's American and who isn't".

The first thing my father did on the day of 9-11 was buy me an American flag to put on my truck. It wasn't necessarily out of patriotism, but as a protection against the anti-Arab, anti-Indian, anti-Brown sentiment that I knew would very well develop.

I still don't have an American flag on my truck, but when some people see an American flag and then see me, they look at me with contempt and disgust.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When the war started, I put one up in my office to remind me that people are dying in support of our/my country. I don't put one up outside because no one else would see it anyway. But I like to see the flags flying around town. To me, the flag represents the best of what we all hope for; and the bond that all Americans should feel as a proud nation. No matter how one may feel about the current president, or any particular action, or any specific legislation, this country is great; and it aspires to greatness. I like seeing some unity in these dangerous times. This is not misplaced. We need to remember that we are all in this together; along with most of the free world.

Maybe you folks in New Zealand are safe enough.

 

[Mattius_]

i definitely don't think it is to be apart of the crowd... but when i do see flags everywhere around town, i do feel security in the fact that a lot of people are willing to fight with me

 

[jb]

i think the soldiers should be commended for their sacrifice, and we should support them as individuals.

but I'm also sick of people who think the soldiers are dying to protect our freedom and our way of life, because although we were attacked somewhat, we were never invaded.

 

[Zero]

I think symbols are for the symbol-minded. Flags don't mean anything, and if you need one to tell you how to feel, I feel badly for you.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
I think symbols are for the symbol-minded. Flags don't mean anything, and if you need one to tell you how to feel, I feel badly for you.

OoOoOoh! Flags that tell you how to feel?! is that anything like a furby? I want one!

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
OoOoOoh! Flags that tell you how to feel?! is that anything like a furby? I want one!

*edited by me*

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
I think symbols are for the symbol-minded. Flags don't mean anything, and if you need one to tell you how to feel, I feel badly for you.

You're missing the point. The flag doesn't tell me how to feel, it tells you how I feel.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
You're missing the point. The flag doesn't tell me how to feel, it tells you how I feel.

And why should I care? And why should you?

And do you really think it tells me ANYTHING? Because to me it doesn't mean anything that you show a flag...except maybe that you care a bit too much about what other people think of you?

I'd prefer no one show a flag ever again.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Zero
...except maybe that you care a bit too much about what other people think of you?

Then why do you use an avatar?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Then why do you use an avatar?

Because it is neat?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Flags are neat.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Flags are neat.

OK...whatever you say.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Zero
OK...whatever you say.

There is a difference between blind patriotic flag waving and a show of unity and support for those who risk their lives. You know that you and I have been ganging up on Russ for his poor misguided views for some time now. Even though poor Russ is still lost, you know that I'm not GI JOE. However, I do believe deeply in the principles to which this nation aspires. To me, the flag stand for this. Not for George Bush. Not for misguided or corrupt foreign or domestic policies. It stands for what we try to be. For the first time in memory, our way of life faces a true threat. Even though I have real doubts about Saddam's complicity in 9/11, in general we do face a stealthy enemy who would destroy us if possible. If now is not the time to stand together, then when? The flag serves also to remind of us this. That's why the flags go up in times of national crisis.

 

[Kerrie]

i think some people go overboard with the flags on their cars, for example, they have the flag decal in the window, and two flags hanging from the front windows of each side of the car...here in my neighborhood, we have an old truck that is painted like the american flag...that's got to take some balls to drive that thing...

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
And why should I care? And why should you?

I don't care if you care or not.

And why should I care about what? About the country or about you caring? It should be self evident why I care about the country.

So if I don't care if you care, why would I show the flag? Because some people DO care. Specifically, members of the military care about support from home.

 

[kyle_soule]

Originally posted by Zero
I think symbols are for the symbol-minded. Flags don't mean anything, and if you need one to tell you how to feel, I feel badly for you.

You don't like symbols?

Have you ever clapped for anybody? That would be a symbol of how you feel too. Turn it around and let's say you perform for people, and they don't clap, do you then care about symbolism? Most people would.


And to answer the original post, no I am not tired of patriotism.

I think flags are neat to

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking



There is a difference between blind patriotic flag waving and a show of unity and support for those who risk their lives. You know that you and I have been ganging up on Russ for his poor misguided views for some time now. Even though poor Russ is still lost, you know that I'm not GI JOE. However, I do believe deeply in the principles to which this nation aspires. To me, the flag stand for this. Not for George Bush. Not for misguided or corrupt foreign or domestic policies. It stands for what we try to be. For the first time in memory, our way of life faces a true threat. Even though I have real doubts about Saddam's complicity in 9/11, in general we do face a stealthy enemy who would destroy us if possible. If now is not the time to stand together, then when? The flag serves also to remind of us this. That's why the flags go up in times of national crisis.

You are hugely paranoid, I think, and about the wrong things. There is no terrorist that can destroy America, the very concept is silly. And why is it that we can only 'stand together' when it comes time to kill other people, but when it comes time to help one another we stand as far apart as possible. Anyone who supports cuts in services for children, the poor, and the elderly, is lying through their teeth when they put up a flag and a sign that says 'United We Stand'.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kyle_soule
You don't like symbols?

Have you ever clapped for anybody? That would be a symbol of how you feel too. Turn it around and let's say you perform for people, and they don't clap, do you then care about symbolism? Most people would.


And to answer the original post, no I am not tired of patriotism.

I think flags are neat to

There's a difference between clapping for a person, or a small group of people, and clapping for...a nation of 270 million, a bloated freedom-hating government, corporate corruption.

Patriotism is a way for people to pretend that they are better than everyone else because they live in a country that they pretend is better than everyone else's.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Zero
You are hugely paranoid, I think, and about the wrong things. There is no terrorist that can destroy America, the very concept is silly. And why is it that we can only 'stand together' when it comes time to kill other people, but when it comes time to help one another we stand as far apart as possible. Anyone who supports cuts in services for children, the poor, and the elderly, is lying through their teeth when they put up a flag and a sign that says 'United We Stand'.

One properly placed nuclear device, such as in New York or San Francisco, and our way of life is over. In addition or all of the carnage, the economic impact would last for decades at least. Think about it: 19 idiots with box knives nearly killed an industry - the airlines - and changed the country forever. These guys are playing to the fact that we have many Achilles heals. To deny the threat is to live a fantasy life. That's just what the terrorists are counting on.

I agree about the hypocrisy of the republicans.

 

[kyle_soule]

Originally posted by Zero
There's a difference between clapping for a person, or a small group of people, and clapping for...a nation of 270 million, a bloated freedom-hating government, corporate corruption.

Patriotism is a way for people to pretend that they are better than everyone else because they live in a country that they pretend is better than everyone else's.

Your signature should be IMO

True, the majority would not fly flags if the majority didn't fly flags; but some people, such as [some] war veterans, would still fly flags if the majority didn't.

I suppose some feel a personal conviction to fly the flag, and in that case it's most likely symbolic for themselves (and own peace of mind, i.e. everybody else in the neighborhood is flying theres) and in that case there is no need for them to fly it. Although, some, you must admit, do have good reason or actually believe there is a purpose to flying the flag.

The flying of the flag could also serve as a support group. For example, if your child, husband, mother, father, etc. was taken prisoner of war, they may fly the flag to feel part of a group and this would (perhaps) help them, in some way.

 

[kyle_soule]

Originally posted by Zero
You are hugely paranoid, I think, and about the wrong things. There is no terrorist that can destroy America, the very concept is silly. And why is it that we can only 'stand together' when it comes time to kill other people, but when it comes time to help one another we stand as far apart as possible. Anyone who supports cuts in services for children, the poor, and the elderly, is lying through their teeth when they put up a flag and a sign that says 'United We Stand'.

The government gives us the illusion of unity so that we can mass produce war goods if we need them, and we do this with a sense of belonging and patriotism

'United We Stand' was just a catchy phrase for the country, it was simply a means of unity and belonging, we put it in our windows because we were pissed off at the terrorists and it was the easiest way to voice that. And of course it helped the government in the aforementioned.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Zero
Patriotism is a way for people to pretend that they are better than everyone else because they live in a country that they pretend is better than everyone else's.

OK. Mostly I agree. Unfortunately, nationalism is a necessary byproduct or Darwinism. The world IS full of tyrants. They are found everywhere from among world leaders and mob bosses, to the owners of some small businesses. There are people who would take away your freedom. This is a fundamental truth of human nature.

"The tree of liberty must constantly be watered with the blood of patriots." Patrick Henry

Do our leaders take advantage of this and use it to further hidden agendas? Of course. It is the never ending game...

 

[Shadow]

let's be honest here, the people who have all those flags on their houses, cars, etc., are just doing it to be "part of the crowd" which is sad because that flag is supposed to represent the people of america. if the people of america are just a bunch of dorks who paste the flag everywhere to be "part of the crowd" then i don't want to be here anymore.

Or, maybe it is because many people are partriotic and with all that has happened to and within the United States in the past few years, patriotism hasnt died down and will not die down. We are the United States and I'm glad that our country is finally united again.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
Patriotism is a way for people to pretend that they are better than everyone else because they live in a country that they pretend is better than everyone else's.

We covered this one months ago in the thread about how common it is for people to confuse patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same thing. To summarize:

Patriotism: "America is great!"
Nationalism: "America is great - and f__ you!"

Unfortunately, nationalism is a necessary byproduct or Darwinism. The world IS full of tyrants. They are found everywhere from among world leaders and mob bosses, to the owners of some small businesses. There are people who would take away your freedom. This is a fundamental truth of human nature.

Definitely, except I'm not so sure about the first part. That implies that only "good" countries can be nationalistic. Certainly ANY country can be nationalistic. Any country can see itself as the best (and f__ you!) if they define the parameters correctly.

America is actually somewhat unique in that we were created out of patriotism and not nationalsism. Most of Europe cast off nationalism after WWII. But there are still places where it is rampant - and those places are where wars happen.

 

[Andy]

You don't need a flag to love ones country. And i think it is very sad to hear about the majority of the flags being put up after 9/11. but i think it is even sadder to hear about how a man in england was told that he had to take down his flag because an ethnic group said the St Georges Cross was racist. the St georges cross is the English National Flag and is a white backgound with a Red Cross through it just incase any of you didnt know what that looked like.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Andy
i think it is even sadder to hear about how a man in england was told that he had to take down his flag because an ethnic group said the St Georges Cross was racist. the St georges cross is the English National Flag and is a white backgound with a Red Cross through it just incase any of you didnt know what that looked like.

What was the basis for claiming it was racist?

 

[Shadow]

A similar case was on TV, although it was twisted in another way.

A veteran of war, who happened to be the only man in his regiment (hope that was the right word. forgive me, its late wher I live so I may have typed the wrong word) to live through the war, bought a large house in a nice neighborhood, and he had signed a contract to not place certain things on his front lawn. But flag poles and flags were not mentioned. He asked about it to make sure, and was told it would be fine. When he put a flag pole up on his lawn along with pictures flowers, and other things on his lawn in memory of his comrades, he was told to take his flag pole and its enormous flag down. Many people in his neighborhood fought with him because they liked the flag, and he was right; there was no violation. However, although this was clear, the supreme court forced him to take it down, and the contracts he signed have been changed saying that flagpoles (such as the one he had) are now prohibited and that your flag and flag pole must be a certain size.

There was clearly no violation and, I'll be blunt: What the hell?

 

[halfdyke]

ok to add to this thread subject, I'm also sick and tired of all those stupid bumper stickers with dumbass slogans like "these colors don't run" and the perennial favorites, "god bless america" and "united we stand." give it a rest folks, we get the point.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Shadow
A similar case was on TV, although it was twisted in another way.

A veteran of war, who happened to be the only man in his regiment (hope that was the right word. forgive me, its late wher I live so I may have typed the wrong word) to live through the war, bought a large house in a nice neighborhood, and he had signed a contract to not place certain things on his front lawn. But flag poles and flags were not mentioned. He asked about it to make sure, and was told it would be fine. When he put a flag pole up on his lawn along with pictures flowers, and other things on his lawn in memory of his comrades, he was told to take his flag pole and its enormous flag down. Many people in his neighborhood fought with him because they liked the flag, and he was right; there was no violation. However, although this was clear, the supreme court forced him to take it down, and the contracts he signed have been changed saying that flagpoles (such as the one he had) are now prohibited and that your flag and flag pole must be a certain size.

There was clearly no violation and, I'll be blunt: What the hell?

Perhaps this became a practical matter? At some point it could be dangerous. Other such limits apply to commercial ventures as well. For example, service stations on highways used to put up signs the height of Redwood trees. Limits were set, really due to eyesore complaints I think.