Why are two different conductors needed for the Seebeck-Peltier effect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity of using two different conductors in the Seebeck-Peltier effect, particularly in the context of measuring the thermoelectric effect. Participants explore the reasons behind this requirement, touching on measurement challenges and the principles of electrical circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why two different conductors are necessary, suggesting that heating one end of a single conductor like copper should suffice for electron flow.
  • Another participant explains that using two conductors is essential for measurement purposes, as a single conductor would result in equal thermal voltage across it, leading to no current flow due to Kirchhoff's laws.
  • A similar point is reiterated by another participant, emphasizing that without different materials, the voltages would balance out, preventing measurable current or voltage.
  • One participant introduces the idea of using a solenoid in series with the thermoelectric setup, suggesting that it could help measure the thermoelectric current, although it is noted that this solenoid is not an ideal voltmeter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of using two different conductors for the Seebeck-Peltier effect, primarily for measurement reasons. However, there is some debate regarding the implications of using a single conductor and the specific mechanisms involved in measuring the effect.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of measuring thermoelectric effects and the role of circuit laws, but does not resolve the underlying assumptions about the behavior of conductors in this context.

hasnainzeenwa
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I've been doing some reading about the thermo-electric effect but I don't get why two different conductors are needed for the electrons to flow.

I mean if I take a piece of copper wire and heat one end and cool the other, the electrons at the hotter end will get excited and move towards the cooler end thus producing the desired effect then why are different conductors required
 
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You need two conductors because the effect is very hard to measure otherwise. Let's say you have a copper bar with a thermal voltage across it. It is easier to understand if we use an Ampere meter to measure this voltage. If you connect the Ampere meter to the piece of copper using copper wire, the thermal voltage will be the same on the copper wire as it is on the bar because the endpoints are at the same temperatures, thus there will be the same thermal voltage across the wire as on the bar, if you go around the loop made of the bar and the round trip voltage is zero therefore no current will flow.

Due to Kirchhof's laws all voltages in a loop add to zero, normally some voltages come from voltage sources and some from the voltage over the resistors due to currents. Because the voltage sources all already add up to zero there can be no voltage in the loop anywhere where you might put a voltmeter.
 
0xDEADBEEF said:
You need two conductors because the effect is very hard to measure otherwise. Let's say you have a copper bar with a thermal voltage across it. It is easier to understand if we use an Ampere meter to measure this voltage. If you connect the Ampere meter to the piece of copper using copper wire, the thermal voltage will be the same on the copper wire as it is on the bar because the endpoints are at the same temperatures, thus there will be the same thermal voltage across the wire as on the bar, if you go around the loop made of the bar and the round trip voltage is zero therefore no current will flow.

Due to Kirchhof's laws all voltages in a loop add to zero, normally some voltages come from voltage sources and some from the voltage over the resistors due to currents. Because the voltage sources all already add up to zero there can be no voltage in the loop anywhere where you might put a voltmeter.

But you can put a solenoid in series and the thermoelectric current through it can be enough to activate a massive gas valve. That involves a finite emf across the ends of the coil (finite resistance) and your solenoid is, thus, a form of voltmeter. Not an ideal voltmeter, of course, because voltmeters have infinite resistance.
 
The point is that you need two different materials, so that the voltages are not balanced. Otherwise there is no measurable current or voltage. You cannot operate a solenoid valve on a thermocouple made only of copper.
 

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