Why Can Light Only Travel at the Speed of Light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of why photons can only travel at the speed of light and explores the implications of mass and momentum in this context. Participants delve into the mathematical reasoning behind the speed of light, the distinction between rest mass and relativistic mass, and the relationships governing energy and momentum in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that photons can only travel at the speed of light due to their zero rest mass, questioning whether this can be mathematically reasoned through mass and momentum equivalence equations.
  • Others argue that the speed of light is defined as the speed at which light travels, suggesting that the question may be more about why this speed is what it is, which relates to electromagnetic wave propagation as described by Maxwell's equations.
  • A participant presents the relationship between rest mass, energy, and momentum, stating that for massless particles like photons, the equation simplifies to \(E = pc\), leading to the conclusion that their speed must be \(c\).
  • There is a discussion regarding the terms "relativistic mass" and "rest mass," with participants questioning their usage in different contexts, particularly in relation to light.
  • Some participants clarify the distinction between total energy and rest energy, noting that the modern formulation of energy-momentum relationships is considered more fundamental than the earlier \(E = mc^2\) equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the definitions and implications of mass in relation to the speed of light. There is no consensus on the best way to frame the discussion or the terminology used, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of mass and energy, as well as unresolved questions regarding the mathematical steps involved in deriving relationships between mass, energy, and speed.

Greatness
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Pardon my elementary questions, but:
Why is it that photons can only travel at the speed of light?
I know because they have zero rest-mass it is only possible for them to travel at c, but is there some mathematical reasoning to this through the mass and momentum equivalence equation?

Lastly, is there some mathematical reasoning as to why anything with non-zero rest mass cannot reach light speed? I understand it would take infinite energy, but can that be reasoned mathematically, or is it solely physics?

Thanks, once again.
 
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Just two days ago, someone else asked very similar questions in this thread:

has relativistic mass gone out of fashion?

In that thread, I gave what I thought was a relevant answer in post #33. Why don't you have a look at it and see if it helps you?
 
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Greatness said:
Why is it that photons can only travel at the speed of light?

That question is basically asking why light travels at the speed of light... it has to, because that is what "the speed of light" means.

However, you may be trying to ask a different question: "Why is the speed of light what it is?"
The answer is that light is electromagnetic waves, and the speed at which these waves propagate is determined by and can be calculated from the laws of electricity and magnetism which James Maxwell discovered in 1861 (google for "Maxwell's equations").

(as an aside... except when you are studying the quantum mechanical properties of light, you should avoid thinking in terms of photons. They aren't what you think they are).
 
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photons travel at c everywhere...
light travels at c in the vacuum...
So the speed of light should refer at c??
 
Greatness said:
I know because they have zero rest-mass it is only possible for them to travel at c, but is there some mathematical reasoning to this through the mass and momentum equivalence equation?

The general relationship between (rest-)mass, energy and momentum is ##E^2 = (pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2##. Therefore if m = 0, E = pc.

From the relationships between momentum and velocity, or between energy and velocity, and the relationship above, it's possible to show that
$$\frac{pc}{E} = \frac{v}{c}$$
which gives 1, i.e. v = c, for a photon.
 
jtbell said:
The general relationship between (rest-)mass, energy and momentum is ##E^2 = (pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2##. Therefore if m = 0, E = pc.

From the relationships between momentum and velocity, or between energy and velocity, and the relationship above, it's possible to show that
$$\frac{pc}{E} = \frac{v}{c}$$
which gives 1, i.e. v = c, for a photon.
Which relationships are you referring to?
Also, why in E = mc^2 is m sometimes referred to as either relativistic mass ( in the context of light? ), while at other times (and what I understand) as rest mass?
 
Greatness said:
Which relationships are you referring to?
$$p = \gamma mv = \frac{mv}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}\\
E=\gamma mc^2 = \frac{mc^2}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}$$
Also, why in E = mc^2 is m sometimes referred to as either relativistic mass ( in the context of light? ), while at other times (and what I understand) as rest mass?
When m is the "rest mass", E is the "rest energy", i.e. the energy that the particle has even when it is at rest: ##E_0 = mc^2##. When m is the "relativistic mass", E is the total energy (rest energy plus kinetic energy): ##E = E_0 + K = m_{rel}c^2 = \gamma mc^2##.
 
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Greatness said:
Also, why in E = mc^2 is m sometimes referred to as either relativistic mass ( in the context of light? ), while at other times (and what I understand) as rest mass?

The ##E## in ##E=mc^2## can be understood as either the total energy including the object's kinetic energy, in which case you would use the relativistic mass (and interpret ##(\gamma-1)m_0## as the kinetic energy); or as the energy in a frame in which the object is at rest so has no kinetic energy, in which case you would use ##m_0##, the rest mass. Obviously the latter does not apply to light (no frame in which the light is at rest).

Note that the more modern ##E^2=(m_0c^2)^2+(pc)^2## reduces to ##E=mc^2## for a massive particle at rest (##p=0##) and to ##E=pc## for a massless particle. Thus, it's generally considered the more fundamental relationship these days.
 

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