Why Can't We Produce Energy from Air Molecules When the Sun is Shining?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of extracting energy from air molecules when exposed to sunlight. Participants explore concepts related to thermodynamics, energy transfer, and the potential for innovative methods to harness energy from heated air, while questioning existing limitations and principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why energy cannot be produced from air molecules when heated by sunlight, suggesting that energy could be concentrated or transferred among air molecules.
  • Others clarify that the random motion of air molecules does not allow for ordered energy transfer without a temperature difference, referencing the second law of thermodynamics.
  • A few participants mention existing technologies like solar thermal energy and thermoelectric effects, which require a temperature gradient to extract energy.
  • There is a discussion about the concept of "shining energy," with some participants attempting to define it as heat transferred by light, while others assert that it is not a recognized form of energy.
  • Some express skepticism about the possibility of finding entirely new methods to extract energy from air, citing physical laws that may limit such innovations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the possibility of extracting energy from heated air molecules without utilizing existing methods or technologies. While some acknowledge the limitations imposed by thermodynamic principles, others remain hopeful about exploring new approaches.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of terms like "shining energy" and the conditions under which energy can be extracted from air. There is also a lack of consensus on the feasibility of innovative energy extraction methods.

elone
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Sun shining on Earth and make it warm but its not warm enough to make energy of it
What happened to air molkols when it getting hot?
Why we can concentrate light by miror whitout spend energy but we can't do it on air? We need power to compres air to make it warmer and we can use it to produce energy
I say if we can change the propertice of hot molkol to less hots , energy will concetrate and transferred to nighber molkols
Do you think its posible?
Sorry for my bad english
 
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molkols? Do you mean molecules?
In hot air, those molecules are moving faster.

Sun shining on Earth and make it warm but its not warm enough to make energy of it
Solar thermal energy and solar updraft towers (just prototypes) exist.

Why we can concentrate light by miror whitout spend energy but we can't do it on air?
Air is not light. The molecules in hot air have a random motion, while sunlight comes from one direction only.
 
I don't mean lighting energy i asking to transmite random motion energy to other moulkoles of air
Yes I am new on english language sorry about that
 
i asking to transmite random motion energy to other moulkoles of air
That is not possible in an "ordered" way, as the motion is completely unordered.
 
I think what you mentioned is referred as a classic example against the second law of thermodynamics.
 
No i say use sun energy from air temperture
 
As jiayue9 and me explained, this is not possible.
You would need some colder material nearby to extract useful energy.
 
Like mfb said there is a way of extracting energy directly from heat but it requires a difference in temperatures between two sides. It is called the Thermoelectric effect you can read it on wikipedia.

www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Thermoelectricity
 
dbmorpher said:
Like mfb said there is a way of extracting energy directly from heat but it requires a difference in temperatures between two sides. It is called the Thermoelectric effect you can read it on wikipedia.

www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Thermoelectricity

This is all about my poor english language
I know we can not use this low temp of air for produce energy
I know if we try to compres air it use more energy than it produce
I say sun did not spend energy to mix with air so maybe we can take shining energy out, without using energy.
Can we ?
 
  • #10
What is "shining energy"?
Solar cells use the solar radiation to extract energy.
If you do not want to use that, you have to heat something to a higher temperature (above the temperature of the environment). Sunlight can do this, and I linked two concepts which use that.
 
  • #11
mfb said:
What is "shining energy"?
Solar cells use the solar radiation to extract energy.
If you do not want to use that, you have to heat something to a higher temperature (above the temperature of the environment). Sunlight can do this, and I linked two concepts which use that.

Sunshine have energy right? It come from sun right? When it crash to Earth make it warm right? And it make air warm, yes? I try to find other way (not direct from sunshine) to use this energy i asking to explore energy from air mulecols
 
  • #12
Sunshine have energy right? It come from sun right? When it crash to Earth make it warm right? And it make air warm, yes?
Right.

I try to find other way (not direct from sunshine) to use this energy i asking to explore energy from air mulecols
All those methods were mentioned here.
 
  • #13
mfb said:
What is "shining energy"?
Solar cells use the solar radiation to extract energy.
If you do not want to use that, you have to heat something to a higher temperature (above the temperature of the environment). Sunlight can do this, and I linked two concepts which use that.

You speak abut ways that exist i looking to find new way
 
  • #14
Right, and I told you that there cannot be a completely new way. The laws of physics do not allow that.
 
  • #15
I say sunshine did not spend energy to mix with air so maybe we can take shining energy out, without using energy.
Can we ?
 
  • #16
I say sunshine did not spend energy to mix with air
If you don't build anything special, hot air mixes with the remaining air.
so maybe we can take shining energy out, without using energy.
There is no "shining energy".
Can we ?
No.
 
  • #17
mfb said:
If you don't build anything special, hot air mixes with the remaining air.
There is no "shining energy".
No.

Shining energy is translate from my language it mean heat that transfer by light
 
  • #18
Thermal radiation?
Okay, that does not change my points.
 
  • #19
If these answers were here just for the asking, don't you think the techniques would have already be used?
 

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