Why did QuackWatch lose the trial?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SF
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    trial
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the trial involving QuackWatch and the reasons behind their loss in court. Participants explore the implications of legal standards versus scientific standards, the burden of proof in California law, and the broader context of health fraud and advertising claims. The conversation touches on legal, ethical, and procedural aspects of the case.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that QuackWatch lost because the court found key figures in the anti-quackery movement to be biased and lacking credibility.
  • Others propose that the differing standards of proof in science and law contributed to QuackWatch's defeat, emphasizing that in civil law, the burden of proof lies with the plaintiff.
  • One participant highlights California's legal framework, suggesting it allows for misleading claims to be made without the seller needing to prove their validity, which they view as problematic.
  • There is a mention of QuackWatch's legal strategy, with some questioning whether they adequately prepared for the trial.
  • Another participant references QuackWatch's libel suit against the Bolens, indicating that the case involved statements made in emails and message boards.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reasons for QuackWatch's loss, with no consensus on the primary factors. The discussion reflects a range of opinions regarding the legal implications and the credibility of the involved parties.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the legal standards in California may differ significantly from other jurisdictions, and there is uncertainty regarding any changes to consumer protection laws since the trial.

SF
Here's a report from the crackpot's PoV:
herballure com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=435&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

The Court also declared that top quackbusters Stephen Barrett (quackwatch.com), and Wallace Sampson MD (Scientific Review of Alternative and Aberrant Medicine) "were found to be biased and unworthy of
credibility."

The quackbusters lost in a PUBLISHED case. The quackbuster premise failed. Not some of it, not most of it - but ALL of it. The "quackbuster" measuring stick for how to evaluate health care has been completely discredited. Official quackbuster credibility is now ZERO.

Why did the judge rule against QuackWatch?
 
Biology news on Phys.org
My take: Science and the law operate under different premises. QuackWatch attempted to bring scientific premises into the world of law. In science, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Someone with a hypothetical cure for some ill must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that their claim is valid. In law, the burden of proof shifts dramatically, particularly so in civil law. A quack can make a claim for a product, and it is up to the plaintiff suing the quack to prove the quack is wrong.

It also doesn't hurt that the quackery industry is very deeply involved in funding politicians. Federal and state regulations have been weakened substantially since the 1970s.
 
They lost because it was in California which has some bizarre approach to crackpot medicine. Your link is from 2003.

From your link
On appeal, NCAHF acknowledges that, under current California law, a false advertising plaintiff bears the burden of proving the defendants advertising claim is false or misleading. NCAHF contends, however, that we should shift the burden of proof to the defendant to facilitate the campaign against health fraud. NCAHF argues that federal law shifts the burden to the defendant in false advertising actions."

In response to the NCAHF's demands, the Court said: "We conclude there is no basis in California law to shift the burden of proof to a defendant in a representative false advertising and unlawful competition action.
What this is saying is that in Califiornia I can sell the snot out of my nose and claim it cures cancer and I don't have to prove it. If someone takes me to court, they have to prove my snot can't cure cancer. It is the most ridiculous and backasswards thing I've ever seen.

I haven't checked to see if the ruling was reversed or if California has now inacted consummer protection laws since this nonsense.

Quackwatch is very alive and well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DrClapeyron said:
Wow. Did they (quackwatch) hire a lawyer? http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/bolensuit.html Says mainly they sued due to what was stated in emails and internet message boards.
This is quackwatch's suit of libel against the Bolens.