Why do humans see themselves as different from animals?

[Evo]

And no other organism on Earth is motivated by financial gain and social status. Therefore, I conclude, humans are different to other animals.

I don't think anyone is saying we aren't different, different doesn't mean better.

 

[k9b4]

I don't think anyone is saying we aren't different, different doesn't mean better.

"Why do humans see themselves as different from animals?"

 

[DiracPool]

Yes exactly. Humans have different capabilities. Humans are different. Humans possesses the most complex nervous system on earth. Humans are 'smarter', 'more intelligent', 'more emotional', whatever words you want to use. Our nervous system is what makes us different to other animals.

The origins of consciousness and cognition is actually my central field of study. I serve on the editorial board of one central publication in the field and essentially referee for most of the other main players. It's actually a very contentious subject even among those doing the principle research on the matter, much less the lay public who may have other social, religious concerns wrapped up in it. Two conferences I regularly attend and present at are the ASSC: http://www.theassc.org/, and the biennial Tucson conference:http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/

But after 15+ years of arguing over it, I don't think I've made much headway on my position. The debate essentially boils down to a "continuity versus discontinuity" perspective, a term coined by Kathleen Gibson, an anthopologist and colleague of of one of my early mentors. http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...e=online&aid=7252412&fileId=S0140525X00071326

Sorry, I think the article may behind a paywall, but the gist of it is that the human brain and all other mammalian brains are remarkably similar in structure, with no unique structures or pathways distinguishing humans from any other mammal, let alone primates. Yet, our experience and patently obvious capacity for technological progress relative to even our closest primate ancestor put me squarely in the "discontinous" camp. However, you'd be surprised at the high volume of tenured professors and published scholars that continue to vociferously argue that we are none other than marginally smarter apes whose intelligence falls along a linear or "continuous" graph with all other mammal/primates according to gross brain volume (a measure known as the encephalization quotient (EQ).

So that's one reason I've stayed out of these discussions thus far, it's just very hard to sway opinion on this matter. It's going to take some extremely compelling study or model to even make a dent in public, even scientific opinion, and that might not even do much.

 

[k9b4]

the gist of it is that the human brain and all other mammalian brains are remarkably similar in structure

Similar, sure. But still different. An airplane is similar to a car, but an airplane is not a car.

with no unique structures or pathways distinguishing humans from any other mammal, let alone primates.

Are you saying that all mammals think in the same way as humans, the difference is quantitative only?

 

[DiracPool]

Similar, sure. But still different. An airplane is similar to a car, but an airplane is not a car.

Well, that's the quandary isn't it? If you're talking about a prop plane with an internal combustion engine (ICE), maybe, but a jet plane is clear structural discontinuous change from the ICE that's easy to characterize. When we are talking about the brain, we are basically talking about a discontinuous change occurring from a structural organization equivalent from upgrading from a 4 cylinder to a 6 cylinder engine, there's no obvious reformatting of the propulsion technology as seen in the jet example above. So that's what you are working with. What you have is a gross overdevelopment of the prefrontal cortex in higher primates and humans. That's what you have to work with if you want to explain the anomaly.

Are you saying that all mammals think in the same way as humans, the difference is quantitative only?

I'm not saying that at all, in fact I'm saying the opposite. I'm in the discontinuous camp, but I'm not going to go into my personal model on the subject. I'm saying that there is a camp out there that thinks all mammals think qualitatively in the same way humans do, and believe it or not, this camp actually comprises more than 50% of the community as far as my subjective estimate. But this isn't the camp I'm in.

 

[k9b4]

What you have is a gross overdevelopment of the prefrontal cortex in higher primates and humans.

So, can higher primate's prefrontal cortexs perform all the same thinking as human's prefrontal cortexs, except that human's prefrontal cortexs do a better job?

Can a human prefrontal cortex do things which a higher primate prefrontal cortex cannot?

Idk, qualitative vs quantitative debate seems pointless to me. Nothing is qualitatively different. Everything is made of the same stuff, the only difference between things is the amount of stuff.

It seems to me all you have to do to settle your argument is precisely define your words.

 

[DiracPool]

Idk, qualitative vs quantitative debate seems pointless to me. Nothing is qualitatively different. Everything is made of the same stuff, the only difference between things is the amount of stuff.

Well, now I'm not sure what camp you're in. You say the above quote, but then you said the following earlier...

Yes exactly. Humans have different capabilities. Humans are different. Humans possesses the most complex nervous system on earth. Humans are 'smarter', 'more intelligent', 'more emotional', whatever words you want to use. Our nervous system is what makes us different to other animals.

How do you reconcile that? See the problem?

But let's get back to your main distress expressed so boldly just a moment ago..

"Why do humans see themselves as different from animals?"

The answer there (IMHO) is that we are qualitatively different from animals, we just don't know why...yet.

 

[DiracPool]

Can a human prefrontal cortex do things which a higher primate prefrontal cortex cannot?

What do you think? Can a bonobo ape's prefrontal cortex design a printed circuit board or a turbine engine? I don't think so..

So, can higher primate's prefrontal cortexs perform all the same thinking as human's prefrontal cortexs, except that human's prefrontal cortexs do a better job?

Again, I don't think so, I think it's a lot more than just "a better job." What do you think?

 

[k9b4]

Well, now I'm not sure what camp you're in. You say the above quote, but then you said the following earlier...

Hmm yes I misunderstood the word 'qualitative'. I thought that the word is meaningless because everything is made of atoms, the only difference between things is the amounts of atoms. But I forgot that the atoms must also have a position, and differences in positions of atoms means 'qualitative' differences.

I think I am in the 'humans are qualitatively different to other animals' camp. This is a very weak belief though, as I know little of the subject.

 

[Evo]

This thread is going in circles and making no progress. Yes, some people see them selves different from animals for different reasons, That's a given. That goes absolutely nowhere.