Why do the two mouths of a wormhole have opposite charges?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter etotheipi
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Riddle Sign Wormhole
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a wormhole characterized by a spherical metric and the implications of charge distribution at its two mouths. Participants explore the relationship between electric field lines, charge assignment, and orientation in the context of problems from a physics text.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the mathematical setup involving a spherical metric and a 1-form related to charge, leading to a calculation of charge at each mouth of the wormhole.
  • Another participant questions the natural orientation for observers looking into each mouth and whether they would perceive the same or opposite charges.
  • A participant suggests that the mouth through which electric field lines enter should have a negative charge, but acknowledges the symmetry and arbitrary nature of charge assignment.
  • It is noted that while the assignment of positive and negative charges is arbitrary, the requirement for the two mouths to have opposite charges is not arbitrary and must hold true from an external observer's perspective.
  • One participant concludes that the exercise illustrates that relabeling charges does not affect physical outcomes, emphasizing the importance of opposite orientations for the mouths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the two mouths of the wormhole must have opposite charges, but there is debate regarding the assignment of positive and negative charges and the implications of orientation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of electric field lines and the implications of charge orientation, which may not be universally accepted or resolved within the context provided.

etotheipi
It's about problem 106 and 107 in Gauge Fields, Knots & Gravity. There's a wormhole of topology ##\mathbf{R} \times S^2## on which has been defined a spherical metric ##g = \mathrm{d}r^2 + f(r)^2 (\mathrm{d} \phi^2 + \sin^2{\phi} \mathrm{d} \theta^2)## as well as a 1-form ##E = (q\mathrm{d}r)/(4\pi f(r)^2)##. The first part is to figure out the "charge" of each mouth, which we can do by defining an orthonormal basis of 1-forms ##\{\mathrm{d}r, f(r)\sin{\phi} \mathrm{d}\theta, f(r)\mathrm{d}\phi \}## and an orientation ##\omega = \mathrm{d}r \wedge f(r)\sin{\phi} \mathrm{d}\theta \wedge f(r)\mathrm{d}\phi##. Then ##\mathrm{d}r \wedge *\mathrm{d}r = g(\mathrm{d}r,\mathrm{d}r) \mathrm{d}r \wedge f(r)\sin{\phi} \mathrm{d}\theta \wedge f(r)\mathrm{d}\phi## implies that ##*\mathrm{d}r = f(r)^2 \sin{\phi} \mathrm{d}\theta \wedge \mathrm{d} \phi##, so\begin{align*}

\int_{S^2} *E = \frac{q}{4\pi} \int_{S^2} \frac{*dr}{f(r)^2} = \frac{q}{4\pi} \int_{S^2} \sin{\phi} \mathrm{d} \theta \wedge d\phi = \frac{q}{4\pi} \int_0^{2\pi} \mathrm{d}\theta \int_0^{\pi} \sin{\phi} \mathrm{d} \phi = q

\end{align*}The confusing bit is problem 107 where he asks for a careful explanation of why, since electric field lines are flowing from one mouth to the other we'd expect one mouth to be positively ##(q)## charged and the other to be negatively ##(-q)## charged, whilst on the other hand we just showed the integral of ##*E## over any 2-sphere of constant radius is ##q##.

I get that if we'd chosen the opposite orientation ##f(r)^2 \sin{\theta} d\phi \wedge d\theta## on ##S^2## then the sign of the integral would change, but there's got to be something more than that, surely? Can somebody explain the question? Thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
etotheipi said:
I get that if we'd chosen the opposite orientation ##f(r)^2 \sin{\theta} d\phi \wedge d\theta## on ##S^2## then the sign of the integral would change

Yes. Which orientation would be the "natural" one for observers looking into each mouth from the outside? Would they be the same, or opposite?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi
PeterDonis said:
Yes. Which orientation would be the "natural" one for observers looking into each mouth from the outside? Would they be the same, or opposite?
I reckon the mouth through which the field lines (flows of the vector field which is dual to ##E##) enters naturally needs to be the one with the orientation which gives ##-q##. But even then, due to the symmetry, there would be two possibilities for the direction of the vector field dual to ##E## in the first place, so it would still amount to an arbitrary choice right?
 
etotheipi said:
there would be two possibilities for the direction of the vector field dual to ##E## in the first place, so it would still amount to an arbitrary choice right?

The arbitrary choice is which mouth we assign positive charge and which mouth we assign negative charge. But there is nothing arbitrary about the charges of the two mouths, as seen by observers outside their respective mouths, being of opposite sign. The question I asked in my last post was intended to indicate why the latter must be the case.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi
PeterDonis said:
The arbitrary choice is which mouth we assign positive charge and which mouth we assign negative charge. But there is nothing arbitrary about the charges of the two mouths, as seen by observers outside their respective mouths, being of opposite sign. The question I asked in my last post was intended to indicate why the latter must be the case.
Thanks, I think I get it now! So I guess the point of that exercise is just to demonstrate that nothing physically changes if you re-label ##q \mapsto -q##, the only important thing is that the two mouths need opposite orientations imposed on them.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
937
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K