Why do we believe dark matter exists?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter badseed
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Dark matter Matter
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of dark matter, exploring its implications, the reasoning behind its acceptance in the scientific community, and the potential for alternative hypotheses. Participants engage in a debate about the nature of scientific inquiry and the validity of dark matter as a concept within cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that dark matter clusters like normal matter but is distributed more diffusely due to a lack of dissipative interactions.
  • Others suggest that dark matter is a placeholder used to make hypotheses work mathematically, questioning its existence and the assumptions underlying cosmological theories.
  • One participant compares the reliance on dark matter to historical scientific practices, suggesting that it may be a contrivance similar to the epicycles used in the geocentric model.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that dark matter is compelled by observational evidence, with no viable alternatives currently available.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the scientific community's openness to alternative hypotheses, questioning whether they receive adequate support for investigation.
  • There is a suggestion that the scientific process involves inventing explanations for observations that do not fit expectations, with dark matter being a result of rigorous scientific inquiry.
  • One participant notes that effective theories, like Newtonian gravity, are relied upon until better theories emerge, which must also account for existing observations.
  • Another participant asserts that there is an overwhelming amount of observational evidence indicating that dark matter or something similar exists, countering claims that it is merely a mathematical contrivance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the existence and implications of dark matter, with no consensus reached. Some argue for its necessity based on observational evidence, while others question its validity and the assumptions behind its introduction into cosmology.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding of dark matter and the assumptions that underpin cosmological models. There is an acknowledgment of the ongoing nature of scientific inquiry and the potential for future theories to replace current models.

  • #31
PeterDonis said:
He didn't regret it because it was "wrong". He regretted it because, if he hadn't postulated it, but had taken the simplest cosmological model based on his original field equation (without the CC), he might have predicted the expansion of the universe more than ten years before it was discovered. That has nothing to do with whether or not the CC is a "natural" part of the field equation; it's simple to show that it is by deriving the EFE from a Lagrangian.

(It's also worth nothing that the implicit argument you are making here is an argument from authority, i.e., not a valid argument. Even if the authority is Einstein. Einstein made mistakes, just like all humans do.)

EFE - Euler Fluid Equations? lol

I see, "his original field equation (without the CC), might have predicted the expansion of the universe" but the CC " is a natural part of the field equation"

This cool thing?
a3c8c914b0feb71a3427798749d038f5.png

6d22ba88b3d49613b1fc1bd8ae47da54.png

0980ee5c53b73cf3d78a539c59d7dfdb.png


PeterDonis said:
Models which attribute the redshift to anything other than expansion of the universe don't fit the data.

Yet redshift has been demonstrated in experiments independent of expansion - could be a problem.

OK, I give up ( I have work to do) - Dark matter and dark energy are real, they where discovered in 1933 or something; gravity is the only fundamental force that effects galaxy scale motion and redshift is only caused by expansion (someone should tell Chen, he thinks it was a result of electron density in his experiments).
 
Space news on Phys.org
  • #32
Orodruin said:
Maybe it is an invisible Pink Unicorn pulling the galaxies together. Would that be "simpler" for you?

lol... You should know that in the order of likeliness, I put pink unicorns just below dark matter.
 
  • #33
This is silly. Dark matter is simply the explanation that best fits the available data at this time. You don't have to like it, but you cannot fault science for coming to this conclusion and try to hand-wave away decades of work by thousands of people trained to answer these very questions. In any case, PF does not exist to argue what in science is right or to convince people of anything. It exists to teach people about mainstream science, including dark matter, expansion, and a thousand other theories that sometimes seem ludicrous to people. Thread locked.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K