Why do we need two representations of SU(3)

In summary, the conjugate representation of SU(3) allows us to create a vector space of dimension 3, while SU(3) by itself cannot. SU(3) can be decomposed into a symmetric and anti-symmetric tensor. The tensor A^{ab} has only 3 independent components, and belongs to a 3-dimensional vector space.
  • #1
Jelly-bean
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TL;DR Summary
if we use up, down and staring quarks and their own antiparticle we can create the Eightfold way and understand mesons by the hyper charge and isospin projections.
Summary: if we use up, down and staring quarks and their own antiparticle we can create the Eightfold way and understand mesons by the hyper charge and isospin projections.

I don't understand how the conjugate representation of SU(3) allows us to create a vector space of dimension 3, while SU(3) by itself cannot.
 
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  • #2
You have three quarks, each in a triplet representation. 3 x 3 x 3 = 3 x (6 x 3bar) = (3 x 6) + (3 x 3bar) = 10 + 8 + 8 + 1. One of the octets is the eightfold way.
 
  • #3
Jelly-bean said:
staring quarks
Now there's a caption begging for a cartoon. :oldtongue:
 
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  • #4
Vanadium 50 said:
You have three quarks, each in a triplet representation. 3 x 3 x 3 = 3 x (6 x 3bar) = (3 x 6) + (3 x 3bar) = 10 + 8 + 8 + 1. One of the octets is the eightfold way.
sorry I don't think I get the second step. Where did the 6 come from?
 
  • #5
Jelly-bean said:
Where did the 6 come from?

The algebra of SU(3). 3x3 has 9 elements, and they fall into the sextet and 3bar representations.
 
  • #6
[itex]q^{a} \left( = u , d , s \right) \in \{ 3 \}[/itex], a 3-vector in the fundamental (or defining) representation space [itex]\{ 3 \}[/itex] of [itex]\mbox{SU}(3)[/itex]. The 9-component tensor [itex]q^{a}q^{b} \in \{ 3 \} \otimes \{ 3 \}[/itex] can be decomposed as follows [tex]q^{a}q^{b} = S^{ab} + A^{ab} ,[/tex] where [tex]S^{ab} = S^{ba} = \frac{1}{2} \left( q^{a}q^{b} + q^{b}q^{a}\right) ,[/tex] is symmetric (therefore 6-component) tensor, and [tex]A^{ab} = - A^{ba} = \frac{1}{2} \left( q^{a}q^{b} - q^{b}q^{a}\right),[/tex] is anti-symmetric (i.e., 3-component) tensor. Since [itex]S^{ab}[/itex] and [itex]A^{ab}[/itex] don’t mix under [itex]\mbox{SU}(3)[/itex] transformation, they must belong to different representation spaces: [itex]S^{ab} \in D^{6} \equiv \{ 6 \}[/itex], and [itex]A^{ab} \in D^{3} \equiv \{ \bar{3}\}[/itex]. In order to complete the proof of [itex]\{ 3 \} \otimes \{ 3 \} = \{ 6 \} \oplus \{ \bar{3} \}[/itex], you need to know the answers to the following 2 questions: The tensor [itex]A^{ab}[/itex] has only 3 independent components, i.e., it belongs to a 3-dimensional vector space, which we denoted by [itex]D^{3}[/itex]. So, 1) why did we identify [itex]D^{3}[/itex] with the conjugate representation space [itex]\{ \bar{3} \}[/itex] and not with the space [itex]\{ 3 \}[/itex]? In other words, where did the bar on the 3 come from? And 2) how do we know that [itex]D^{6} \equiv \{ 6 \}[/itex] is an irreducible space?
 
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  • #7
From a physics point of view we need it, e.g., for QCD's color-charge space, i.e., we want to have antiquarks carrying the "anticolors" of the quarks' colors.
 
  • #8
Try reading the Appendix on group theory in A. Zee's "Quantum Field Theory in a Nutshell" @Jelly-bean . I know a good few people who found it helpful for clearing up things like why ##3\otimes 3 = 6 \oplus \bar{3}##. It's basically about two things:
  1. Symmetric and Antisymmetric tensors
  2. The Levi-Cevita symbol converting between upper and lower indicies
 
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  • #9
Another good source is the old classic by Lipkin: "Lie groups for pedestrians".
 

1. Why do we need two representations of SU(3)?

The two representations of SU(3) are the fundamental representation and the adjoint representation. These two representations are needed because they provide different perspectives on the underlying structure of SU(3). The fundamental representation is used to describe the building blocks of SU(3), while the adjoint representation is used to describe the interactions between these building blocks.

2. What is the difference between the fundamental and adjoint representations of SU(3)?

The fundamental representation of SU(3) is a vector space that describes the basic building blocks of the group, known as quarks. The adjoint representation, on the other hand, is a matrix representation that describes the interactions between these quarks. In other words, the fundamental representation describes the individual components of SU(3), while the adjoint representation describes how these components interact with each other.

3. How do the two representations of SU(3) relate to each other?

The fundamental and adjoint representations of SU(3) are related through a mathematical operation known as the Lie bracket. This operation allows us to transform between the two representations and provides a deeper understanding of the underlying structure of SU(3). Essentially, the adjoint representation is a more complex version of the fundamental representation.

4. Why is it important to have two representations of SU(3)?

Having two representations of SU(3) allows us to study the group from different perspectives and gain a more complete understanding of its properties. The fundamental representation is useful for understanding the individual components of SU(3), while the adjoint representation provides insight into the interactions between these components. This is crucial for developing theories and models in particle physics.

5. Are there other groups that have multiple representations?

Yes, there are many other groups in physics that have multiple representations. Some examples include the SU(2) group, which has the spinor and vector representations, and the SO(3) group, which has the fundamental and adjoint representations. These multiple representations are essential for understanding the complex structures and interactions in the physical world.

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