Why Does a=dB Imply ∫a=0 on Compact Manifolds?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter redrzewski
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Compact Manifold
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the statement a=dB for n-forms on compact manifolds, specifically addressing why this condition leads to the conclusion that ∫a over the manifold M is zero. The scope includes theoretical aspects of differential forms, properties of manifolds, and the application of Stokes' theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a theorem from Taylor's PDE book stating that if M is a compact, connected, oriented manifold and a is an n-form, then a=dB implies ∫a=0, questioning the validity of this when M has a boundary.
  • Another participant suggests that the term "manifold" often implies "without boundary," prompting a clarification of Taylor's terminology.
  • A third participant notes that a closed manifold is a compact manifold without boundary, indicating that the theorem may only apply in such cases.
  • One participant acknowledges the counter-example provided and suggests that additional conditions regarding the behavior of the n-1 form at the boundary may be necessary for the theorem to hold.
  • Another participant retracts their previous suggestion, indicating that simply making the form vanish near the boundary does not resolve the issue, implying a need for a more robust approach.
  • There is a reiteration that if Taylor's claim is correct, it may reflect non-standard terminology regarding compact manifolds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the applicability of the theorem to manifolds with boundaries, with some asserting that it only applies to closed manifolds. The discussion remains unresolved as to the specific conditions under which the theorem holds.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of consensus on the definitions of compact manifolds and the implications of boundaries in this context. The discussion highlights the need for clarity in terminology and the assumptions underlying the theorem.

redrzewski
Messages
115
Reaction score
0
I'm looking at prop 19.5 of Taylor's PDE book.

The theorem is:

If M is a compact, connected, oriented manifold of dimension n, and a is an n-form, then a=dB where B is an n-1 form iff the ∫a over M is 0.

I'm trying to understand why a=dB implies ∫a = 0.
If M has no boundary, than this follows from Stokes theorem.

However, if M has a boundary, then it seems like this is a counterexample:
a = dx^dy, B=xdy, M=unit square in R^2

Here, ∫a = 1, and a=dB.

The general definitions of compact manifold I've found don't assume no boundary.

What am I missing?
thanks
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Your analysis is impeccable. Usually, when ppl say manifold, they mean "without boundary". Find out what Taylor means by manifold.
 
I mean this with no patronisation intended, but you've answered your own question because in mathematics, a closed manifold is a special type of topological space, namely a compact manifold without boundary. In contexts where no boundary is possible, any compact manifold is a closed manifold.
 
That's a very nicely constructed counter-example, you clearly understand the concepts reasonably well.

Indeed, this only applies to closed manifolds. However, I'm sure that you can fix it by asserting something about the behaviour of the n-1 form at the boundary. E.g - if you assert that it vanishes to zero around some open neighbourhood of the boundary.

There's a theorem about fixed points, I think it's called the Poincare-Hopf theorem, which says that for a vector field on some manifold with finitely many zero vectors, the sum of the indices of the fixed points is equal to the Euler characteristic of the surface, but if it has a boundary you need to make sure that all the vectors are outward pointing there. Perhaps there's something similar going on here. The suggestion I had above will definitely work though.
 
Thinking about it, what I said is rubbish, just making the thing vanish near the boundary won't help at all, as an adjustment to your construction would show. So I imagine you do have to do something more inline with what I said in my second paragraph.
 
kdbnlin78 said:
I mean this with no patronisation intended, but you've answered your own question because in mathematics, a closed manifold is a special type of topological space, namely a compact manifold without boundary. In contexts where no boundary is possible, any compact manifold is a closed manifold.
This is not one of those cases. If Taylor's claim is correct, his terminology is non-standard.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
862
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
10K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K