Why does collision frequency decrease with increasing T?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between collision frequency (Z) and temperature (T) in gas systems. Participants explore the implications of temperature changes on collision frequency, examining theoretical models and equations related to gas behavior, particularly under varying conditions of pressure and volume.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the equation for Z indicates that collision frequency decreases with increasing temperature, which they find counterintuitive given that higher temperatures are typically associated with increased molecular motion.
  • One participant suggests that the increase in mean free path with temperature might contribute to the decrease in collision frequency, but questions whether this effect is offset by increased molecular velocity.
  • Another participant points out that while the average speed of molecules (c) is in the numerator of the equation for Z, temperature (T) is in the denominator, leading to confusion about their expected relationship.
  • It is proposed that if pressure is constant, the collision frequency Z is proportional to T^(-1/2) due to the interplay between increased molecular speed and the expansion of gas volume, which reduces collision rates.
  • Conversely, if the molar volume is fixed, the collision frequency is suggested to be proportional to T^(1/2), indicating that higher temperatures would lead to increased collision frequency in that scenario.
  • Participants engage in mathematical reasoning to derive the relationship between c, Vm, and Z, with some expressing uncertainty about combining these terms correctly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between temperature and collision frequency, with some arguing for a decrease in collision frequency with increasing temperature under constant pressure, while others suggest an increase when molar volume is fixed. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall implications of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the dependence of their arguments on assumptions about pressure and volume conditions, as well as the mathematical relationships between variables, which remain a point of contention and exploration.

sgstudent
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From the equation for Z from this website https://books.google.com.sg/books?i...page&q=collision frequency Z equation&f=false

It shows that as T increases Z decreases. However this seems quite counter intuitive to me as I had always been taught that as temperature increases so does the frequency of effective collisions/collisions. The only reason that I could think of was due to the mean free path increasing as temperature increases causing the frequency of collision to decrease. But I feel that a problem with that statement is that even though the mean free path increases, the velocity of the gas increases so wouldn't that cancel out the effect of having a greater distance to cover? So why does an increase in T decrease Z?

Secondly, in the equation for Z the average speed of the molecules, c is in the numerator of the equation while temperature, T is in the denominator. This again seems weird to me because I always thought that the speed of molecules and temperature should be proportional to each other so they shouldn't be on opposite sides of the fraction. Why aren't they both on one side of the equation?
 
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sgstudent said:
From the equation for Z from this website https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=HCwa62SivTIC&pg=PA366&lpg=PA366&dq=collision+frequency+Z+equation&source=bl&ots=7Q6sYImwn2&sig=yUz_amxES4H_m1NiQ4sQl0v3Hh0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3-g4VcXREMTIuATko4CIBQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=collision frequency Z equation&f=false

It shows that as T increases Z decreases. However this seems quite counter intuitive to me as I had always been taught that as temperature increases so does the frequency of effective collisions/collisions. The only reason that I could think of was due to the mean free path increasing as temperature increases causing the frequency of collision to decrease. But I feel that a problem with that statement is that even though the mean free path increases, the velocity of the gas increases so wouldn't that cancel out the effect of having a greater distance to cover? So why does an increase in T decrease Z?

Secondly, in the equation for Z the average speed of the molecules, c is in the numerator of the equation while temperature, T is in the denominator. This again seems weird to me because I always thought that the speed of molecules and temperature should be proportional to each other so they shouldn't be on opposite sides of the fraction. Why aren't they both on one side of the equation?

P/RT on the right is the same thing as 1/Vm, where Vm is the molar volume.

What you have is essentially a volume swept out per second ( c * sigma) divided by the molar volume.

The collision cross section has some small temperature dependence, but you can assume that it is a constant.

c is proportional to T^(1/2), and Vm is proportional to T (Charles' Law -- assumes pressure is constant)

As a result, Z is proportional to T^(-1/2) if pressure is constant. The molecules are moving faster, which should increase the collision rate, but the gas is expanding (P is a constant, so Vm increases) and the space between molecules is increasing which will decrease the collision rate. The net is a reduction in collision rate.

If you assume that the molar volume is fixed (a closed container) then the collision rate will be proportional to T^(1/2) -- an increasing T will result in a larger collision frequency.
 
Quantum Defect said:
P/RT on the right is the same thing as 1/Vm, where Vm is the molar volume.

What you have is essentially a volume swept out per second ( c * sigma) divided by the molar volume.

The collision cross section has some small temperature dependence, but you can assume that it is a constant.

c is proportional to T^(1/2), and Vm is proportional to T (Charles' Law -- assumes pressure is constant)

As a result, Z is proportional to T^(-1/2) if pressure is constant. The molecules are moving faster, which should increase the collision rate, but the gas is expanding (P is a constant, so Vm increases) and the space between molecules is increasing which will decrease the collision rate. The net is a reduction in collision rate.

If you assume that the molar volume is fixed (a closed container) then the collision rate will be proportional to T^(1/2) -- an increasing T will result in a larger collision frequency.

Thanks for the reply. How would I combine the c is proportional to T^(1/2), and Vm is proportional to T to get Z is proportional to T^(-1/2) if pressure is constant? Sorry my math is not very strong so I'm not sure how to combine them together.

If we were to assume that molar volume is fixed that would mean that the 1/Vm term is constant right? So the only temperature dependent term is the c term and so it would increase the collision frequency? Is this in time with your second paragraph?

Thank you for the quick response.
 
sgstudent said:
Thanks for the reply. How would I combine the c is proportional to T^(1/2), and Vm is proportional to T to get Z is proportional to T^(-1/2) if pressure is constant? Sorry my math is not very strong so I'm not sure how to combine them together.

If we were to assume that molar volume is fixed that would mean that the 1/Vm term is constant right? So the only temperature dependent term is the c term and so it would increase the collision frequency? Is this in time with your second paragraph?

Thank you for the quick response.

Z = 2^(1/2) Na * c_bar * sigma / Vm

c_bar = c1*T^(1/2) , Vm = c2 * T (constant p)

Z = c3 * T^(1/2)/ T = c3 * T^(-1/2), where c1, c2, and c3 are constants.

If Vm is a constant, then Z = c4 * T^(1/2)
 

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