Why Does Snow Pack Better Near the Melting Point?

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The discussion centers on the optimal conditions for packing snow to build snowmen, emphasizing that snow packs best when temperatures are above freezing. The unique properties of water, particularly its expansion upon freezing, influence how snow behaves under pressure. When temperatures are close to the melting point, applying slight pressure can cause the snow to melt slightly, allowing it to re-solidify and hold together better. Participants share personal experiences of building snowmen, noting that wetter snow, typically found near freezing temperatures, is ideal for packing, while dry snow is less effective regardless of temperature. The conversation also touches on the challenges of making snowmen in colder conditions, where snow is less sticky, and the fun memories associated with snow activities. Additionally, there is a mention of various snow types and their moisture content, with insights from snow scientists on the best conditions for snowball making and snowman construction.
  • #31
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Lots of interesting stuff here. There are several factors involved, for a serious discussion you should look at works dealing with the metamorphosis of snow, snow crystal growth and snow crystal thermal gradients.
Most all of this will be found under snowpack analysis books and avalanche prediction. Snow is a crystalline structure. As thermal gradients change the moisture will tend to move from warmer regions to cooler regions. The crystals in the cooler regions will tend to grow as they assimilate the new moisture. Part of formation of a glacier is that the crystals grow to well over a foot in length. When placed under high pressures (do to the depth of bury) these large and quite strong crystals exhibit a plastic quality allowing the ice to flow.
Back to Snowman X you could also look up a snow condition named Nieves Penitentes. This means Penitent snow. It is a condition that happens mostly in the high altitudes of the southern hemisphere. The higher portions of the snow are continually cooled by sublimation as the moisture is carried through the pores of the snow pack. This allows the high points to grow and stay present. However most of the moisture travels down and is metamorphed into ice crystals, This adds great strength but significantly reduces volume as the crystals are far more dense than snow. This leads to large fields of "little penitent snowmen" evolving from large seasonal snowpacks.
 

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  • #32
Penitent? Had to look that one up. Sounds like an anthropomorphism.
 
  • #33
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I thought for sure we were all done making snowmen this year in Chicago when I made the snowman a week ago (4-9-18) that was almost 5'6" tall. ## \\ ## Today (Monday 4-16-18) though, we had another inch of snow, and I was able to put together a 4'0" snowman in my backyard. :)
 

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  • #34
Thursday, November 15, (last Thursday), Chicago had 1/2' of snow with temperatures just above freezing that made for good packing. I managed to make a 3'0" snowman in my backyard. See photos:
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  • #35
Doesn’t he/she need this years clothing style?
 
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  • #36
jedishrfu said:
Doesn’t he/she need this years clothing style?
I'm using the same clothing,(scarf, cap, and gloves), and eyes and nose (those are empty medicine bottles with the covers removed), and red duct tape that I have for the last couple of years. I suppose I could try to find something different, but I'm not terribly fashion conscious.:wink:
 
  • #37
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Here are pictures of a snowman I made today, Thursday 11-29-18, in my backyard. I believe this one is the largest snowman I have ever made.
 

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  • #38
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Here is a current picture on Tuesday 12-4-18 of last Thursday's (11-29-18) snowman. Chicago had plenty of rain on Saturday 12-1-18 and Sunday 12-2-18, along with temperatures as high as 47 degrees, so I covered the snowman with plastic during this time, and he survived. We now have cold weather in the forecast in Chicago for at least a week, so he just might be around for a while. He is still 5'0" tall, but has lost some of his bulk.
 

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  • #40
I made one large snowman in February this year that lasted about 3 weeks, whose pictures I did not post, but here is a picture of today's snowman Sunday 4-14-19, which will likely be the last one of the year. This one is about 4'0" tall.
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  • #41
Note: The above picture is from my backyard in Chicago, Illinois. Let me repeat it here, because we are on a new page. The snowman is 4'0" tall from Sunday 4-14-19.
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  • #42
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I was expecting the snowman of 4-14-19 to be the last one of the season in Chicago, but today 4-27-19, I built another (see photo) that also is 4'0" tall. We usually do not get snow in Chicago in late April. It is even somewhat uncommon in mid-April.
 
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  • #43
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In a very early snow in Chicago on 10-31-19, we got enough snow to make a 4'0" snowman. Happy Halloween.
 
Last edited:
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  • #44
Charles Link said:
View attachment 252145In a very early snow in Chicago on 10-31-19, we got enough snow to make a 4'0" snowman. Happy Halloween.
Archimedes got new gloves this season ☃
 
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  • #45
newbiegirl said:
Archimedes got new gloves this season ☃
You are very observant. I couldn't find the old pair, (I found them a half hour later), so I put a different (more colorful) pair of gloves on the snowman. ☃☃
 
  • #46
Good snow for a snowball fight is also probably good snow for a snowman or snowwomen.

"Light, powdery snow does not contain a lot of moisture or air, making it difficult to pack into a snowball. For the best snowballs, seek out snow from areas where the ground may be warmer. Wetter snow makes for better snowballs. "

From, https://www.google.com/search?q=wha.....69i57j33.13079j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"Snow comes in five categories: dry (zero percent water), moist (less than 3 percent), wet (3 to 8 percent), very wet (8 to 15 percent) and slush (more than 15 percent). By that scale, moist to wet snow is ideal for snowman building, according to Jordy Hendrikx, a snow scientist at Montana State University. "

From, https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...ome..69i57.22991j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
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  • #47
Spinnor said:
Good snow for a snowball fight is also probably good snow for a snowman or snowwomen.

"Light, powdery snow does not contain a lot of moisture or air, making it difficult to pack into a snowball. For the best snowballs, seek out snow from areas where the ground may be warmer. Wetter snow makes for better snowballs. "

From, https://www.google.com/search?q=wha.....69i57j33.13079j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"Snow comes in five categories: dry (zero percent water), moist (less than 3 percent), wet (3 to 8 percent), very wet (8 to 15 percent) and slush (more than 15 percent). By that scale, moist to wet snow is ideal for snowman building, according to Jordy Hendrikx, a snow scientist at Montana State University. "

From, https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...ome..69i57.22991j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
The less than 3 percent (moist) IMO most likely is difficult to get it to pack. I have found that the snow packs much better when the temperature is above freezing, as opposed to a couple of degrees below. I don't have instrumentation to put a precise number on this, but from looking at the above numbers, I probably like the 8-15% (very wet) category for ease in rolling the balls for a snowman.
 
  • #49
Just one additional comment: In one of the articles that came up in the above links, one of the "experts" said that a ratio of about 5:1 snow to water seems to work the best for snowmen. That would be a very wet snow of about 16%, which I would be in agreement with. The other expert who said a "moist to wet" snow works best was perhaps using the terminology loosely, and was not relating this to the 3% to 8% category.
 
  • #50
Charles Link said:
Just one additional comment: In one of the articles that came up in the above links, one of the "experts" said that a ratio of about 5:1 snow to water seems to work the best for snowmen. That would be a very wet snow of about 16%, which I would be in agreement with. The other expert who said a "moist to wet" snow works best was perhaps using the terminology loosely, and was not relating this to the 3% to 8% category.

Clearly more research is needed, a research topic that might win you an Ig Nobel prize if it has not already been won by someone?
 
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  • #51
Charles Link said:
Just one additional comment: In one of the articles that came up in the above links, one of the "experts" said that a ratio of about 5:1 snow to water seems to work the best for snowmen.

One expert who has made that claim is none other than Dr. Daniel Snowman.

It's an interesting observation but, as a sometimes snowman or snowball maker, I find it useless in practice. First, measuring water content takes longer than simply trying to form a snowball. Second, there's nothing I can do about it.
 
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  • #52
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Here is a photo of a 5'0" snowman that I made on Friday 11-15-19. The snow, about 2" of it, was from Monday 11-11-19, but at 27 degrees, it was too cold for packing. The next 3 days were even colder, but on Friday, the temperatures warmed up to about 40 degrees, and the snow from Monday packed superbly. This is a good example of how the snow needs to have sufficient water content to pack for a snowman.
 
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  • #53
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Here is a 4'9" snowman that I made today, New Year's Day 2020, from snow that fell yesterday, but at 28 degrees, it was too cold to pack. Today it warmed up to 38 degrees, and it got just warm enough for the snow to pack reasonably well. Happy New Year.
 
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  • #55
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Here is a picture of a 5'0" snowman that I made Monday 1-13-20, from snow that fell 1-12-20. It was too cold to pack well when it fell, but it warmed up a little today, (above freezing), and it packed very well.
 
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  • #56
This snowman has a hohum smile like he didn’t like you using stale snow.
 
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  • #57
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  • #58
The above is a picture of a 4'4" snowman that I made on 12-30-20, the first snowman of the season in Chicago. I couldn't get this text with the picture, so I put it in the next post.
 
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  • #59
Lucky you! This is the last “snowgirl” I was able to make a few years ago- my area doesn’t get much snow.

I recall wanting to go big, but the warmer temps hadn’t allowed me to pack my base ball as much as I had wanted, so we ended up with with this (probably 2.5’ tall)!
F2D9629B-7ABE-4A60-B1FD-E5DBA52A7171.jpeg
 
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  • #60
We didn't get enough snow yet to make one but folks in Hutto got a passel of the white stuff.

And a snowman from Hutto, Texas, Y'all!

texas-snowman-hutto.jpg
 
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