Why Does Snow Pack Better Near the Melting Point?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the phenomenon of snow packing effectively near the melting point, with participants sharing personal observations, experiences, and theories related to snow density and construction of snowmen. The scope includes both conceptual and experiential aspects of snow behavior in varying temperatures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Personal anecdotes

Main Points Raised

  • One participant observes that snow packs better above freezing temperatures, suggesting that pressure applied to snow near the melting point causes it to melt slightly and then re-solidify, aiding in packing.
  • Another participant notes that when snow is colder, even slightly below freezing, it becomes difficult to pack effectively for making snowmen.
  • Several participants share personal experiences of building snowmen, emphasizing the conditions under which snow packs well or poorly.
  • There are mentions of the effects of temperature on snow density and packing efficiency, with anecdotal evidence supporting the idea that warmer snow is easier to work with.
  • Some participants recount their experiences with snow in different climates, highlighting the variability in snow types and packing conditions based on geographic location.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that snow packs better near the melting point, but there is no consensus on the underlying physics, as some explanations are challenged or refined throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the thermodynamic principles involved, and there are references to differing experiences with snow based on climate and geography, which may influence perspectives on snow packing.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those curious about snow physics, snowman construction techniques, and the effects of temperature on snow behavior, particularly in varying climates.

  • #91
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  • #92
The above is a photo of the two snowmen from last week today on Groundhog Day, Thursday 2-2-23. The larger one has now shrunk from 5'6" to about 4'0". They saw their shadows, but let's hope for an early spring.
 
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  • #94
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  • #95
The above photo is a 3'4" snowman that I made today, Friday 2-17-23, in Chicago. The snow didn't pack very well=it was below freezing, but some sunshine and the warmer ground below made it semi-manageable for packing.
 
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  • #96
No snow at all in Indy. A few years ago I snapped on my cross-country skis for a spring, cold-snow/warm-ground, attempt at skiing. It ended fairly quickly with my skis weighing about 5 pounds apiece and I looked like I had Homer Simpson feet. Should have known better.
 
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  • #97
Never skied for fear of looking like some other comic figures.
 
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  • #98
We seldom get snow here in Austin. Most recently we got THE ICE STORM where Mother Nature dumped freezing rain one day, made sure it was frozen and then dumped more freezing rain the second day to truly overload the live oak trees everywhere.

Now we have loads of branches to cleanup with an estimate of April before the city will complete the pickup. Until then piles and piles sit on our front lawn waiting for that special day.

One highlight though were two huge branches crashed down on our backyard fountain. Neither of them even touched our Buddha Frog sitting serenely in the middle of the chaos.

My son suggested he used the power of mind to deflect them.

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  • #100
Upon closer inspection, please note the branch is suspended above his foot by about 1 inch or so being held there by total serenity.
 
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  • #101
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  • #102
The above is a photo of a 3'0" snowman that I made today, Saturday 2-25-23, in Chicago. This morning it was too cold 26 degrees, for the snow to pack, but by noon it was just above freezing, and the snow was disappearing from the warm ground below. I had a narrow window to make the snowman, and I got it together just in time.
 
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  • #103
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  • #104
The above is a photo of a 4'1" snowman that I made today, Friday 3-10-23, in Chicago. The temperatures are a little above freezing, so the snow packed very well.
 
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  • #105
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  • #106
The above is a photo of the 3'6" snowman that I made today, Tuesday, on Halloween 2023. We had our first snow of the season today in Chicago, and we got just enough for a snowman. It packed well with temperatures in the mid 30's.
 
  • #107
blue_leaf77 said:
An Australian acquaintance of mine once told me that it does snow in some part of Australia, especially those around the center of the continent. You never have winter vacation there?

I suppose many people in Australia prefer not to think of Tasmania as part of the country. Kind of like we in the U.S. do with Texas. But in any case it snows in Tasmania, Australia every winter.

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It often snows a little in the summer as well.

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And it is typical that the temperature is hovering around zero, often conducive for making snowballs or snowmen.
 
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  • #108
JT Smith said:
Kind of like we in the U.S. Texas do with Texas the U.S.
Fixed that for you.
 
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  • #109
Haborix said:
Fixed that for you.

Ha! I think you're right that there is a mutuality to the feeling between TX and at least some parts of the U.S. I'm not sure that's true of TAS and the rest of Australia though. At least it's not the sense I've gotten from talking to the locals.
 
  • #110
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  • #111
The above is a photo of a 4'4" snowman I made today, Sunday November 26, 2023, in Chicago. Temperatures were just above freezing, so it packed very well. I did need to use a dowel rod through it and several inches into the ground to keep it upright, because there wasn't enough snow to put between the layers and at the base.
 
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  • #112
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  • #113
The above is a photo of a 4'0" snowman that I made today, Sunday New Year's Eve 2023 in Chicago. The snow packed very well, but I had only about a half inch of snow to work with. I used a dowel rod going through it and into the ground to keep it from tumbling over, since I didn't have any extra snow to put at the base and between the layers. Happy New Year. :)
 
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  • #114
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  • #115
The above is a photo of the 5'2" snowman that I made today, Saturday 1-6-24, along with the snowman from New Year's Eve which is now 2' 10" tall. The snow packed very well today with temperatures just above freezing in Chicago.
 
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  • #116
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  • #117
The above is the latest photo of the snowmen in my backyard, taken today, Wednesday 1-10-24, by my neighbor lady. Yesterday we had a lot of rain and melting snow in Chicago, so the first two snowmen shrunk a lot, but I was able to make a 3rd one which is the 3'4" one on the left. The middle one is from Saturday when it was 5'2", but it is now at 3'8", and the one on the right is from New Year's Eve, and is now 2' 10". Temperatures were just above freezing in Chicago yesterday, so the snow packed very well, but I had a limited amount of snow to work with. They had forecast a possible 6" of snow, but fortunately most of it came down as melting snowflakes or rain, and I didn't need to shovel any snow from the sidewalks.
 
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  • #118
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  • #119
We had more snow today in Chicago, so I built a 4th snowman this morning. See the above photo. This one started out at 4'6", but is now shrunk to 3'10". Temperatures were a couple degrees above freezing, so the snow packed very well, and I had plenty of snow to work with.
 
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  • #120
Charles Link said:
Temperatures were a couple degrees above freezing, so the snow packed very well. . .

Lol, the snow won't pack at all here.. . :H

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Click to enlarge. . .
 
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